Lotus E20 Renault

[raymondu999]

To be honest the FEE worked exactly as planned from the get-go. It was just that they had spent so much time refining it that when the season started, the FEE had no more upgrade potential.

It's probably this that actually got them thinking, "let's not faff around with the funky stuff, and let's just concentrate on getting a good basic chassis with good balance, good drivability, and good, efficient downforce" - leading them to just plop on neutral exhausts and focus on the basic chassis.

[stefan_]

^ I think the same thing, and because they know that The Device will not be banned next year (at least for the moment, as the FIA shagged them once this year), they have their preliminary data to work with in corelation with the wind tunnel and they can develop it further than other teams - maybe they are one step ahead on this one. Plus the fact that they will probably test it intensively in the YDT together with the new exhaust.

The news about this update got me excited. I am eager to see how it works with the E20.

[Donuts]

To be honest the FEE worked exactly as planned from the get-go. It was just that they had spent so much time refining it that when the season started, the FEE had no more upgrade potential.

It's probably this that actually got them thinking, "let's not faff around with the funky stuff, and let's just concentrate on getting a good basic chassis with good balance, good drivability, and good, efficient downforce" - leading them to just plop on neutral exhausts and focus on the basic chassis.

Yes, ofcourse. But with an benchmark (Red Bull) everyone knew the benefits of using their exhausts. With that kind of thinking they will not win. But that has'nt been their goal (fourth in WCC), so maybe they lost so much last year that they had to adopt a two year plan? Not to argue about FEE, but it was terrible in slow-corners, was'nt it, so to say it "working exactly as planned" is maybe not the right formulation.

[raymondu999]

To be honest the FEE worked exactly as planned from the get-go. It was just that they had spent so much time refining it that when the season started, the FEE had no more upgrade potential.

It's probably this that actually got them thinking, "let's not faff around with the funky stuff, and let's just concentrate on getting a good basic chassis with good balance, good drivability, and good, efficient downforce" - leading them to just plop on neutral exhausts and focus on the basic chassis.

Yes, ofcourse. But with an benchmark (Red Bull) everyone knew the benefits of using their exhausts. With that kind of thinking they will not win. But that has'nt been their goal (fourth in WCC), so maybe they lost so much last year that they had to adopt a two year plan? Not to argue about FEE, but it was terrible in slow-corners, was'nt it, so to say it "working exactly as planned" is maybe not the right formulation.

It was terrible in slow corners. But it performed exactly as the windtunnel said it would. James Allison said as much. My point is that your assertion of how the windtunnel was incorrect with the FEE is wrong

[Donuts]

To be honest the FEE worked exactly as planned from the get-go. It was just that they had spent so much time refining it that when the season started, the FEE had no more upgrade potential.

It's probably this that actually got them thinking, "let's not faff around with the funky stuff, and let's just concentrate on getting a good basic chassis with good balance, good drivability, and good, efficient downforce" - leading them to just plop on neutral exhausts and focus on the basic chassis.

Yes, ofcourse. But with an benchmark (Red Bull) everyone knew the benefits of using their exhausts. With that kind of thinking they will not win. But that has'nt been their goal (fourth in WCC), so maybe they lost so much last year that they had to adopt a two year plan? Not to argue about FEE, but it was terrible in slow-corners, was'nt it, so to say it "working exactly as planned" is maybe not the right formulation.

It was terrible in slow corners. But it performed exactly as the windtunnel said it would. James Allison said as much. My point is that your assertion of how the windtunnel was incorrect with the FEE is wrong

Yes, your right. So the fault was not on relying on the windtunel but rather not taking into account the effect that could not be simulated. Anyway, it will be interesting to see how they manage to get it to work, I'll have to follow that on the forum since my weekend is ruined by a conference trip.

Btw. Any tv-station that hotels usually have in france that show F1? Anyone?

[alogoc]

E20 Japan updates(Italian)

http://i47.tinypic.com/famu4w.png

[turbof1]

I don't think that this is such a bad idea. For everyone who´s read the article it's pretty clear that they have put a lot of work into this "Coanda style" exhaust which reminds me of when they put a lot of work into the "McLaren style" blown rear wing in 2010, it worked from the "go" (don't take this as a comparison between the systems, It's just and example of what the results are when they take this kind of approach). They are patient with bringing larger upgrades, they want them to work first. I read that almost 80% of what they bring to the racetrack works as predicted in their windtunnel. I guess the "front exhaust exit" is not included (don't want to start that topic again)?

About "the device", it seem really tricky do dial in (taking to much of their setup time in practice), if it works they'll have an advantage for next season and possibly the last two races.

One thing I do not understand is why they went from the most radical exhaust layout to the most conventional. But it seems to have worked pretty good...

Yes indeed. There is also no indication up to now that coanda exhausts will be banned after 2014. It is something you should have; it will not bring massive gains, but I think it'll be worth a few tenths.
The problem with their drag reduction device is that it is very, very hard to set it up properly. You don't want to have it stall the rear wing in a medium speed corner, but if it doesn't activate until the halfway a long straight you aren't going to have alot of benefit either. To complicate things further, the set up of it is very circuit specific. The right configuation for Japan will fail on Korea, for instance. They are better off putting it away for now and develop it through intense simulation work during the winter break.

[Donuts]

I don't think that this is such a bad idea. For everyone who´s read the article it's pretty clear that they have put a lot of work into this "Coanda style" exhaust which reminds me of when they put a lot of work into the "McLaren style" blown rear wing in 2010, it worked from the "go" (don't take this as a comparison between the systems, It's just and example of what the results are when they take this kind of approach). They are patient with bringing larger upgrades, they want them to work first. I read that almost 80% of what they bring to the racetrack works as predicted in their windtunnel. I guess the "front exhaust exit" is not included (don't want to start that topic again)?

About "the device", it seem really tricky do dial in (taking to much of their setup time in practice), if it works they'll have an advantage for next season and possibly the last two races.

One thing I do not understand is why they went from the most radical exhaust layout to the most conventional. But it seems to have worked pretty good...

Yes indeed. There is also no indication up to now that coanda exhausts will be banned after 2014. It is something you should have; it will not bring massive gains, but I think it'll be worth a few tenths.
The problem with their drag reduction device is that it is very, very hard to set it up properly. You don't want to have it stall the rear wing in a medium speed corner, but if it doesn't activate until the halfway a long straight you aren't going to have alot of benefit either. To complicate things further, the set up of it is very circuit specific. The right configuation for Japan will fail on Korea, for instance. They are better off putting it away for now and develop it through intense simulation work during the winter break.

Yes, they need to recalibrate it at every circuit, in order to do that they need to work out the methods so they don't take to much time and also pray for good weather.

[dren]

Yes indeed. There is also no indication up to now that coanda exhausts will be banned after 2014. It is something you should have; it will not bring massive gains, but I think it'll be worth a few tenths.

Teams may be able to drive the turbo with the electric motor and pump more air through it off throttle.

[MarkedOne8]

It's easy to be smart now, but I have to say this.There were almost no chances of setting up Devidec correctly for Suzuka when you have corner like 130R.I don't know for Lotus, but I've only seen Red Bulls going with DRS open whole the time through 130R.
Korea is the perfect circuit for the Device, but it is over now.Why Korea?It is so simple configuration - very straight first sector, second sector has only one medium speed and maybe one high speed slightly curved corner and third sector is totally slow speed corners.Corners are not connected like in Suzuka.

[Hobbs04]

It's easy to be smart now, but I have to say this.There were almost no chances of setting up Devidec correctly for Suzuka when you have corner like 130R.I don't know for Lotus, but I've only seen Red Bulls going with DRS open whole the time through 130R.
Korea is the perfect circuit for the Device, but it is over now.Why Korea?It is so simple configuration - very straight first sector, second sector has only one medium speed and maybe one high speed slightly curved corner and third sector is totally slow speed corners.Corners are not connected like in Suzuka.

I saw Alonso with DRS open throughout 130r in quali.

I remember because he struggled in fp2

[godlameroso]

The device will work only if it switches on at over 260 kph, there are turns 7, 8, and 11 to consider which require high downforce, heck I'm not sure 7,8 can be done flat out on a full tank, let alone with DRS open.

[aleks_ader]

The device will work only if it switches on at over 260 kph, there are turns 7, 8, and 11 to consider which require high downforce, heck I'm not sure 7,8 can be done flat out on a full tank, let alone with DRS open.

Where you get this infos? Or i miss something.. Statemend or wordings will be usefull... THX

[munudeges]

Looking forward to seeing how Lotus's exhaust goes. They tend to take their time this team but their hit rate with developments once they get them on is very good. They took most of the season to get their 'F-duct' on their car in 2010 but they ended up with the best implementation.

I'm just puzzled why they haven't got different exhausts on their car before now when it's clear they've been lacking downforce. Their DRS system is going to take development and I'd be surprised if we see both on the car at the same time this season.

[godlameroso]

The device will work only if it switches on at over 260 kph, there are turns 7, 8, and 11 to consider which require high downforce, heck I'm not sure 7,8 can be done flat out on a full tank, let alone with DRS open.

Where you get this infos? Or i miss something.. Statemend or wordings will be usefull... THX

I should have said I don't believe the device will be effective unless they can get it to switch on at over 260 kph. I say because there are turns 7 and 8, and the entry to 11 to consider, and that you would effectively be changing the center of pressure through those turns. Perhaps this is a good thing as it would stress the fronts over the rears, AFIK the fronts are a lot more durable than the rears, or perhaps I'm imagining things.