Honda comeback depends on rules

[Nando]

I really don't care about Honda. Somehow all Japanese manufacturers failed their attempts in F1.

The Brawn GP car was designed under Honda i believe.

Yet, still won when it was installed with a Mercedes engine. I doubt it would have won with an unreliable Honda engine.

2009 was more about the double diffuser loophole and getting the jump on other teams than the design of BGP01. That is why the other teams caught up with them in the second half.

Well first one is speculation, were the Honda V8´s unreliable?
The Mercedes engine was only put in because Honda left, pretty given that you go for the theoretically best engine on the grid.

Sure DD did it´s thing but Brawn wasn´t the only guy in town with a DD.
It was a great car but their rate of development wasn´t.

[Jersey Tom]

I really don't care about Honda. Somehow all Japanese manufacturers failed their attempts in F1.

They built pretty f'ing sporty engines for some time.

[LionKing]

The Brawn GP car was designed under Honda i believe.

Yet, still won when it was installed with a Mercedes engine. I doubt it would have won with an unreliable Honda engine.

2009 was more about the double diffuser loophole and getting the jump on other teams than the design of BGP01. That is why the other teams caught up with them in the second half.

Well first one is speculation, were the Honda V8´s unreliable?
The Mercedes engine was only put in because Honda left, pretty given that you go for the theoretically best engine on the grid.

Sure DD did it´s thing but Brawn wasn´t the only guy in town with a DD.
It was a great car but their rate of development wasn´t.

Honda V8 were unreliable. For instance from 2006 season:
Jenson Button European GP - RET Engine.
Jenson Button British GP - RET Engine fire due to oil leak.
Rubens Barrichello Canadian GP - RET Engine
Jenson Button French GP - RET Engine
Rubens Barrichello French GP - RET Engine
Rubens Barrichello German GP - RET Engine

I remember Honda V10's to be also notoriously unreliable. In one of the Suzuka GP's, 3 of 4 Honda engines had failed in the race.

[Nando]

Honda V8 were unreliable. For instance from 2006 season:
Jenson Button European GP - RET Engine.
Jenson Button British GP - RET Engine fire due to oil leak.
Rubens Barrichello Canadian GP - RET Engine
Jenson Button French GP - RET Engine
Rubens Barrichello French GP - RET Engine
Rubens Barrichello German GP - RET Engine

I remember Honda V10's to be also notoriously unreliable. In one of the Suzuka GP's, 3 of 4 Honda engines had failed in the race.

And 2007?
2008?

[WhiteBlue]

F1 needs teams and engine manufacturers. It is no good if you have too few teams. It is equally bad to have too few manufacturers. When they are properly restricted in terms of what they can do F1 will profit from the input of many manufacturers because F1 without lively power train technology development is only half the fun. I like the idea of restricting manufacturers to a resource level that allows at least one independent engine manufacturer to survive. That way F1 will never depend of the manufacturers but will profit from their input.

[ESPImperium]

Honda V8 were unreliable. For instance from 2006 season:
Jenson Button European GP - RET Engine.
Jenson Button British GP - RET Engine fire due to oil leak.
Rubens Barrichello Canadian GP - RET Engine
Jenson Button French GP - RET Engine
Rubens Barrichello French GP - RET Engine
Rubens Barrichello German GP - RET Engine

I remember Honda V10's to be also notoriously unreliable. In one of the Suzuka GP's, 3 of 4 Honda engines had failed in the race.

And 2007?
2008?

Anyone say Engine Usage Data for 2007 & 2008?

Heres 2008:


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v66/I ... geData.jpg
***UPDATED 2008 chart***


2007 Data:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v66/I ... geData.jpg
***UPDATED 2007 Chart***

[Hail22]

I don't think Honda will be coming back in my humble opinion...why?

Bernie Ecclestone went to Ferrari two weeks ago and was shown the V6 Turbo unit to which he held a small media contingent calling on the FIA to put the new Formula on the back burner for some time.

If the Boss of entertainment is saying no...you can bet your top dollar that the FIA is going to make a last minute halt on the development of the new Engine Formula...even though in reality it seems too late to stop...

[Red Schneider]

Lately I've been wondering if we need to step back and ask ourselves whether road relevance actually matters as much as we think it does. After all this is entertainment, first and foremost.

[Cam]

While I would love nothing more than to see Honda come back - unless the power players leave and F1s future sits in the hands of the teams and manufacturers, OEMs will always simply just give the few players huge amounts of money for little return. F1 is just a global financial gauging tool for a select few. I think this is what Honda is referring to with the rule changes.

While F1 is not 'road relevant' is does need to be a vehicle (excuse the pun) to sell cars for the likes of Honda and co. - or why bother joining. If Honda and co. can draw comparisons from their F1 experience for the improvement of domestic cars, well, that's a win and there's significant value in that. Honda and co. have little to work with at the moment - V8s, DRS, DDRS, coanda exhausts, stepped noses - what in the world are they going to do with that?? This is what the 'relevance' needs to address to attract OEMs.

[WhiteBlue]

Lately I've been wondering if we need to step back and ask ourselves whether road relevance actually matters as much as we think it does. After all this is entertainment, first and foremost.

I'm not really well entertained by a sterile technical development with no power train projects in sight. That would be a big mistake for Formula 1 to make. Who cares about the endless aero gimmicks that have no meaning in reality. The turbo engines are going to give the automotive industry some useful developments and marketing tools. Today selling cars is often down to the most efficient propulsion technology. It is the battlefield where all manufacturers can score big marketing triumphs if they win fuel regulated F1 races and championships. So for Honda, BMW, VW and the likes the new turbos will be attractive and their competition will be both entertaining and useful to the F1 viewers (potential customers). There is no contradiction between road relevance and entertainment in my view.

[dren]

I'd love to see Honda back in F1 as an engine supplier. A Honda-Mclaren matchup would be magical.

[ESPImperium]

I'd love to see Honda back in F1 as an engine supplier. A Honda-Mclaren matchup would be magical.

If Honnda came back, i think they would be looking at a top team, ideally Mclaren with a works deal for them. Then i think they would be looking at 2 more smaller teams, probably something like Williams or Sauber with a HRT or Marussia.

If that was the case, id recon that as i have said Honda should look for some Back-To-Back subsidising with a Japaneese fuel and oil manufacturer or a other fuem & lubricant manufacturer. I Suppose that Mobil 1 would be a good tie in with the engine as well, as then they could do a Renault-Total/Elf style deal or a Ferrari-Shell deal as well. The Japaneese company that i think would be a good fit would be Eneos, but it all depends on the figures i guess.

[Tommy Cookers]

the fuel rules seem likely to generate a fuel war ? (so Honda eg would need a (Japanese?) fuel partner ?)

there is no longer an upper limit to Octane number
the fuel rate is limited at 100 kg/hr (how exactly, Mr FIA ?????)
so engine performance is a function of specific energy/calorific value etc

[FW17]

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Honda-Ra ... 8913358557

[Nando]

this is amazing news. But are they coming back as engine supplier or a full on works team?

hopefully it´s the latter.