Vettel-Ferrari 2014 discussion

[scuderiafan]

Denial is the first step of acceptance, Vettel will be switching his bull for a stallion in 2014.

[raymondu999]

I just think back to earlier this year when Red Bull brought two versions of the RB8 to Monaco: one with Coanda exhaust and one without. The former, which Webber chose, was fast but tricky. The latter, which Vettel chose, was (relatively) slow but stable. I think the results spoke for themselves.

China, but yeah. However the version Vettel chose had better tyre wear through better balance, let's not forget.

If Vettel ever moves to Ferrari, he's likely going to get yearly doses of either "fast, but tricky" or just plain old "tricky,"

Why? Look at the Ferraris from 2000-2008. They were fast, and I wouldn't call them tricky. Even the 2009-2011 Ferraris weren't tricky. They weren't the quickest, but they were balanced. The 2011 Ferrari had trouble getting tyre heat, but it was a balanced car in terms of front-to-rear grip and under/oversteer.

a teammate in Alonso who's widely considered to be as good or better by virtually every metric a driver can be measured.

Widely considered doesn't equal the truth. The earth was once widely considered to be the center of the solar system, and flat.

He'd have to get awfully bored with perpetually winning at Red Bull to even consider taking up such a challenge.

I've known people - and had times myself - when I've seen people living great lives and making great money (I'm talking 6 figure monthly salary) and they just got so bored of their routine they decided to move on - or sometimes start over.

I'm not trying to be difficult here - but in my opinion, it's far from as clear cut as you put it. Perhaps you yourself, if in Vettel's position, wouldn't take the move. I've read your reasons, and I can completely understand where you're coming from. But I don't think the situation has a clear cut "no" at the ending.

[Nando]

Denial is the first step of acceptance, Vettel will be switching his bull for a stallion in 2014.

I don´t really see the logic behind this if everyone meaning RBR, Ferrari and Vettel knew this.

What if RBR produces another monster in 2013? Why would he leave? I mean it´s not like Mclaren with their "team efforts".
RBR is a fantastic team right now, i can´t see why he would change, why Alonso would say yes.

In fact, i think the only real option Alonso would consider is Kubica in 2014.

[raymondu999]

What if RBR produces another monster in 2013?

By monster I assume you mean all-conquering opponent-killer as opposed to a monster like the F2012 was early season.

RBR is a fantastic team right now

I agree. I think operationally, RBR are probably the strongest team in F1 right now. They're good at strategy, they're good at reacting to data and switching strategies, they're good at pitstops - can't really go wrong with them at the moment, despite their lack of history and pedigree (compared to rivals McLaren and Ferrari)

Like I said - him joining Ferrari, on the surface, doesn't make sense. Superficially speaking it makes perfect sense for him to stay and really mold the RBR team even further around himself as he probably has already done for the most part. But the rumors refuse to die, and there is no smoke - especially persistent smoke - without fire. Also Ferrari have not signed any long-term prospects, as I believe they would otherwise have done. The only way that makes sense (to me, at this point in time) is that they can't offer the young shot a long-term contract, though some youngsters would probably jump at any chance - even a one-year chance - to prove themselves in a top car.

Ferrari has recently denied they'd want two top drivers in the car, but as the Horse Whisperer blog says - Ferrari are open to it as long as harmony can be maintained. Which in itself is a tricky thing to have, with two top drivers. However, let's also remember that 2-thirds through 1995, Ferrari were vehemently denying that they were negotiating with Schumacher, and 3 days before Alonso's Ferrari move was announced, they were still adamant that they had Massa and Raikkonen contracted for 2010.

[Nando]

as opposed to a monster like the F2012 was early season.

In F1 encyclopedia that is what we would call a dog. Pretty quick dog as it liked the rain.

[raymondu999]

as opposed to a monster like the F2012 was early season.

In F1 encyclopedia that is what we would call a dog. Pretty quick dog as it liked the rain.

Rubbish. The early season F2012 was clearly a dugong rather than a dog. Hence why it was so quick in the wet

[Just_a_fan]

now been denied by Luca di Montezemolo

I wouldn't trust him to sell me a used sports car...

[Just_a_fan]

I don't see Vettel moving to Ferrari simply because I don't think he wants that challenge. It's not his style.

I don't think you could be more wrong. Vettel wants to be better everyone. This is a driver who is so confident in his own ability that he will risk a race win on the final lap in order to secure the fastest lap of the race. We hear his engineer almost begging him to be careful and he still goes for it.

Going to Ferrari fits perfectly with his "be the best by every metric" style. Go to the most famous team in motor racing and beat the de facto No. 1? Oh yes, that is Vettel's style all over!

The guy wants to secure his name in F1 history. Going to Ferrari and beating Alonso to the title is the best way to do that.

[Just_a_fan]

What if RBR produces another monster in 2013? Why would he leave? I mean it´s not like Mclaren with their "team efforts".
RBR is a fantastic team right now, i can´t see why he would change,

Because Vettel knows that no team is unbeatable. RedBull are the guys to beat today but then Ferrari were the guys to beat in the early 2000s, Williams were the guys to beat in the early '90s. In 1993, if you'd said to a driver "Williams or Benetton next year" most would have jumped to Williams. Same in 1995. By '96?

Who'd have thought that, by 2000, Ferrari, a team that hadn't won in 20 years, would start a winning run that would lead the FIA to change the rules because it had become too boring and predictable.

A driver who wants to break records needs to take risks now and then. Changing to Ferrari is a risk, yes, but it's a reasonable risk. And if it pays off, he has the chance to beat the guy who is currently considered the man to beat. Vettel has a small monkey on his back. That monkey is the issue of his ability to race against a world class driver in equal machinery. Moving to Ferrari gives him the chance to kill that monkey. If he goes there and beats Alonso (even if he doesn't win the title) then he improves his position in the pantheon of the best drivers. I reckon Vettel would take that over another drivers' title.

[Harvey]

Would Ferrari not rather poach Newey than Vettel?
After all, he seems to be the common link between team domination.

[Just_a_fan]

I remember Newey saying that Red Bull would be his last F1 team. Also, the reason he likes Red Bull is that they let him get on with it. Ferrari is a hot bed of politicking - not something Newey likes. He left McLaren because he'd had enough of the culture. I can't imagine he'd enjoy the Ferrari way of doing things any more.

[Nando]

What if RBR produces another monster in 2013? Why would he leave? I mean it´s not like Mclaren with their "team efforts".
RBR is a fantastic team right now, i can´t see why he would change,

Because Vettel knows that no team is unbeatable. RedBull are the guys to beat today but then Ferrari were the guys to beat in the early 2000s, Williams were the guys to beat in the early '90s. In 1993, if you'd said to a driver "Williams or Benetton next year" most would have jumped to Williams. Same in 1995. By '96?

Who'd have thought that, by 2000, Ferrari, a team that hadn't won in 20 years, would start a winning run that would lead the FIA to change the rules because it had become too boring and predictable.

A driver who wants to break records needs to take risks now and then. Changing to Ferrari is a risk, yes, but it's a reasonable risk. And if it pays off, he has the chance to beat the guy who is currently considered the man to beat. Vettel has a small monkey on his back. That monkey is the issue of his ability to race against a world class driver in equal machinery. Moving to Ferrari gives him the chance to kill that monkey. If he goes there and beats Alonso (even if he doesn't win the title) then he improves his position in the pantheon of the best drivers. I reckon Vettel would take that over another drivers' title.

So in essence you want Schumacher to leave in the middle of his ferrari dynasty?

You dont leave when you had a good car the year before, you leave when your current car over a year has not been able to fight for the championship.

Especially when you have a car designer that is the most succesful one in the business and you have the best team bar none behind you.

[Cold Fussion]

You dont leave when you had a good car the year before, you leave when your current car over a year has not been able to fight for the championship.

Especially when you have a car designer that is the most succesful one in the business and you have the best team bar none behind you.

The counter to this is obviously Williams in the 90's. They must hold the record for dumping drivers after they won the WDC with them the year prior.

[mx_tifoso]

...This is a driver who is so confident in his own ability that he will risk a race win on the final lap in order to secure the fastest lap of the race. We hear his engineer almost begging him to be careful and he still goes for it.

...

How is setting the fastest lap in an RB8 with a great margin of lead over second place a risk? He can do it comfortably and even if his engineers tell him that the tyres are shot, he can feel it and say "bollocks". Setting a fastest lap when you can comfortably do it is not exactly a risk.

[Nando]

The counter to this is obviously Williams in the 90's. They must hold the record for dumping drivers after they won the WDC with them the year prior.

But then you have to ask yourself if realistically Red Bull would "dump" Vettel.
Especially being (or what looks like will be) a 3 time world champion, a 3 time consecutive world champion.
That´s a train none of them will jump off until it slows down in my opinion.