Seasonal VW & Formula 1 Rumor

[Raptor22]

Future Bentley´s will be built on Porsche platforms.

I missed that bit. Where did you pick that up? When I consider the Porsche platforms of the top of my head I would think that only the Panamera would be suited for Bentley use. Neither 911, Caiman nor Cayenne is suited to a Bentley model. Or am I missing something?

On the other hand I would be thinking about a BMW/Rolls Royce synergy. BWM makes all the RR high tech chassis and ships them for completion to England where all the manual bits are added. Bentley is probably a bit more mass production than RR but they could pool some mass manufacturing processes with Porsche and ship the modules to England.

I got that info as well. It's really a life extension of the Panamera and Cayanne platforms since these are going to be killed in 2014. VAG said Porsche doesn't build station wagons and family cars. It builds sportscars and that what it will do. However those platforms were costly and the lifeextension gives new life to the Bentley family of saloons. Not a bad thing if you consider the weight of a Bentley currently even with significant raiding of the VAG parts bin

[Nando]

Future Bentley´s will be built on Porsche platforms.

I missed that bit. Where did you pick that up? When I consider the Porsche platforms of the top of my head I would think that only the Panamera would be suited for Bentley use. Neither 911, Caiman nor Cayenne is suited to a Bentley model. Or am I missing something?

On the other hand I would be thinking about a BMW/Rolls Royce synergy. BWM makes all the RR high tech chassis and ships them for completion to England where all the manual bits are added. Bentley is probably a bit more mass production than RR but they could pool some mass manufacturing processes with Porsche and ship the modules to England.

Yes Panamera is first up.

http://www.autoblog.com/2012/09/07/futu ... platforms/
http://www.just-auto.com/interview/wolf ... 27846.aspx

This is just the start i think. Porsche is not liking it but they will eventually do as VAG say.

There have been many rumours about a smaller Porsche sports car. Specifically a project to share such a model with VW or Audi.

WH: There was another brand in the group which was interested in such a car. But for the moment we have put that down our list of priorities. We have so many other things to do that we have stopped the project for a small roadster.

[WhiteBlue]

Nice sources Nando!!! Well worth some +1. But I see nothing that contradicts my perception. Naturally Panamera is a fit with Bentley and Porsche are given the authority over that platform and get to develop the successor. The basic split between Porsche and Audi sports cars platforms will be the front vs rear primary drive function if I have read the interview correctly. Both platforms will have an electric or mechanical AWD option but the primary ICE drive location will dominate the platform definition. In this concept Porsche will do the rear wheel drive and Audi the front wheel drive platform. So this will be the significant technical bit which will differentiate the leadership in development of the two premium and racing brands under discussion.

Now if we spin this out into racing strategies diesel and AWD is more suited to the Audi brand which means LMP1 is still the logical field for the Audi marketing to pursue. The fact that it is really a front wheel drive company with a mid engine racing car will be fudged by emphasising the Quattro moniker.

Porsche on the other hand are a 100% rear and mid engine projecting brand which is very much suited to F1. F1 seems to be very anti AWD and electric front drive. So VW/Porsche could find a nice fit with their internal competency definitions and marketing concepts.

I'm not saying F1 is gonna happen for Porsche but it looks very much like they are hedging their options by keeping the door open to quickly switch from LMP1 to F1.

[FoxHound]

What if VW decided to bring both Audi and Porsche to F1?
It would be pretty much the same expense for double the exposure.
Audi to lock horns with Mercedes in terms of marketing, and Porsche to tackle Ferrari.

A single engine badged twice. The majority of f1 fans wouldnt be the wiser...

[Nando]

I think VW would be the most logical one. They are the ones with the resources.
I doubt Porsche would want to run anything other then their own engines and not simply rebranded VW engines.

F1 is a different ball game all together, just getting the infrastructure, engines etc is a feat in of itself.
Then you have to win as well otherwise you are wasting your time.

Maybe they will buy a team or take it on loan a la BMW.

Im hoping we see either in F1 though, it's good for the sport.

[FoxHound]

Or a partnership.... With red bull and Torro Rosso?

[Nando]

When Newey leaves that might be an option to try and save the inevitable downrise.
But now i dont think Red Bull is interested in any partnerships.

Although Toro Rosso could very well be sold to any of the above.

[WhiteBlue]

What if VW decided to bring both Audi and Porsche to F1?
It would be pretty much the same expense for double the exposure.
Audi to lock horns with Mercedes in terms of marketing, and Porsche to tackle Ferrari.

A single engine badged twice. The majority of f1 fans wouldnt be the wiser...

That does not sound like a sensible multi brand strategy for the VW/Porsche group to me. There are much more refined concepts in R&D and marketing that will not have a cannibalizing effect on sales. Those points will be decisive for the way they are going to go racing.

[FoxHound]

VW already cannabilise.

R8 vs 911
A8 vs Panamera

What they are offering, is an alternate product at the same price point.

[Harvey]

Surely Lamborghini is the VAG brand with the most F1 friendly image?
They can then take the supercar brand battle to Ferrari and McLaren, and in the battle ground that they (currently) have all to themselves.

[WhiteBlue]

VW already cannabilise.

R8 vs 911
A8 vs Panamera

What they are offering, is an alternate product at the same price point.

Perhaps, but that isn't a reason not to try and do better in the future.

[Raptor22]

Surely Lamborghini is the VAG brand with the most F1 friendly image?
They can then take the supercar brand battle to Ferrari and McLaren, and in the battle ground that they (currently) have all to themselves.

Don't forget Bugatti....

[FW17]

Surely Lamborghini is the VAG brand with the most F1 friendly image?
They can then take the supercar brand battle to Ferrari and McLaren, and in the battle ground that they (currently) have all to themselves.

Don't forget Bugatti....

Bugatti sales/build figures

2005 5
2006 44
2007 81
2008 71
2009 50
2010 40
2011 30

Bugatti is not in a battle with anyone for there hypercar, unlike Lamborghini

Lamborghini
1999 265
2000 296
2001 297
2002 424
2003 1,305
2004 1,592
2005 1,600
2006 2,087
2007 2,406
2008 2,430
2009 1,515
2010 1,302
2011 1,602

Ferrari
1999 3,775
2000 4,070
2001 4,289
2002 4,236
2003 4,238
2004 4,975
2005 5,409
2006 5,671
2007 6,465
2008 6,587
2009 6,250
2010 6,461
2011 7,001

[Cold Fussion]

I don't see how F1 is a perfect fit for Porsche. They've spent the better part of their history rocking up to France in the month of July and demonstrating to everyone else how one builds a racecar. Sports car racing is as big as part of their DNA as F1 is to Ferrari.

[skgoa]

As I said in another thread, I don't see which frontrunning team would be looking for a new engine contract in the next few years. Maybe McLaren in 2016 at the earliest. But if you, as a car manufacturer, make the effort to go into F1 you have to be at the front or it's simply not worth it. Toyota, Honda and BMW all learned that lesson a couple of years ago and Mercedes' effort has so far been a failure despite being the 4th fastest of 12 different cars.

R8 vs 911
A8 vs Panamera

Just because they cost the same, you can't just go and say that the same people are going to buy them. Both pairs are comprised of very different cars so I don't think you can conclude "if A didn't exist, they would all buy B."