Post here all non technical related topics about Formula One. This includes race results, discussions, testing analysis etc. TV coverage and other personal questions should be in Off topic chat.
Just_a_fan wrote:...This is a driver who is so confident in his own ability that he will risk a race win on the final lap in order to secure the fastest lap of the race. We hear his engineer almost begging him to be careful and he still goes for it.
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How is setting the fastest lap in an RB8 with a great margin of lead over second place a risk? He can do it comfortably and even if his engineers tell him that the tyres are shot, he can feel it and say "bollocks". Setting a fastest lap when you can comfortably do it is not exactly a risk.
It is actually. Looking back at Korea, you could certainly see his tyre being in very bad shape. His engineer told him that he would not be warned when the tyre would fail, that he'll only notice when it was too late. So he might feel that there is some performance left in the tyres, but he can't feel the eminent danger he's in.
Nando wrote:They weren´t in such a bad shape actually. They thought they were but after the race it was deemed it wasn´t much of a hazard.
To be fair - if that was deemed post-race, then during the race they obviously had genuine cause for concern. However I doubt that any conclusions would have been reached post-race (and not during the race) - because they had 2 sets of softs which came off at the second stop and could be analysed. Look at what Red Bull did back in Spa 2011 - with cause for concern, they immediately slashed the tyres open from the pitstop, and did their analysis work to see if there was real cause for concern.
If they could do that in Spa 2011, I don't see why they couldn't do that again in Korea 2012, though i wouldn't know if a new rule has been introduced to disallow teams slashing their own used tyres open.
I think the Red Bull tyre-thing was a strategy to reign Vettel in and slow him down, to stop him from pushing the car needlessly in the final stages of the race.
Swithching to Ferrari would not be a real challenge.Alonso and Vettel wouldn't have equal treatment.When was the last time the two Ferrari drivers had equal treatment?Maybe at the start of 2007.
There are many challenges for the drivers.Some of them like driving for HRT and trying to score points, or driving for Torro Rosso trying to score podiums, etc... who the hell is crazy enough to accept the challenge he doesn't have to?
Many people will doubt Vettel because he had dominant car in recent years.But they do forget that some drivers simply deserve cars like RB6/7/8.Also, they do forget what Vettel was in 2007, 2008 and 2009.He was able to score good points even in Torro Rosso, and maybe even podiums and one win.
Yes, he had best car in recent years, and he was dominant.Webber had the same car in 2009 and 2010 and he wasn't as fast as Vettel.From 2011 Vettel is #1 in Red Bull.Even if Webber and Vettel now have equal treatments, Vettel will still be faster.
That is my (realistic) opinion.
I don't understand why they wouldn't get equal treatment - If this deal does eventuate, why would Ferrari have gone to a whole lot of trouble to sign a very fast, triple World Champion to be a number 2 driver? Likewise, they aren't going to disadvantage Alonso either as he is the heart of the team now and probably for many years to come. The only other reason to sign Vettel would be to monopolise the driver talent market - a "New York Yankees" approach to F1. That isn't reason enough in my eyes, they want him to push for both titles, like Alonso.
Cold Fussion wrote:The counter to this is obviously Williams in the 90's. They must hold the record for dumping drivers after they won the WDC with them the year prior.
But then you have to ask yourself if realistically Red Bull would "dump" Vettel.
Especially being (or what looks like will be) a 3 time world champion, a 3 time consecutive world champion.
That´s a train none of them will jump off until it slows down in my opinion.
I agree with you. However I'm sure no one realistically expected Mansel to leave Williams after the 92 season considering the ease in which he achieved it.
In my view Red Bull now is the equivalent of what the early 90s dominant Williams team was. A team driven by Adrian Newey which is constantly making the best cars, and have rallied around that and really driven their team performance upwards, strengthening themselves in strategy, in pitstops, etc. The difference is Red Bull now have also rallied around a single lead driver in Vettel, rather than having the instability of the Williams years - moving from Mansell to Prost to Hill to Senna etc etc.
Will RBR dump Vettel? I doubt it personally, but I doubted Hamilton would ever divorce McLaren. RBR IMO have invested too much in Vettel, and I get the feeling that Vettel has rallied and built the team around him beautifully, in a way that neither Webber nor Coulthard ever did. While I never liked the RBR team (though I love their casual attitude on matters, and the mechanics really give the impression of enjoying their work) they are, at the moment, the best team on the grid IMO, being the best at strategy, best at responding to crucial strategy changes quickly, good pitstops etc.
No need for Vettel to come to Ferrari until Alonso is finished, and to be honest, it will be a step down for us, because we don't make rocketships like Newey and thus we need a number one driver who is going to get the maximum out of the car when it's a dog, not a good front runner who is lethal from pole position.
Ferrari have messed this up before, Alonso was ALWAYS the driver that should have replaced Michael, however, Alonso was very Anti ferrari back then and obviously had that big falling out with Todt, but replacing Schumacher with Kimi was not on in my view, I could see that from day one, Ferrari need a genuine leader out of the car, an almost cult-like figure who they know will give his life for Ferrari, Alonso and Schumacher work because they are two such people....the team look to them for leadership and direction and in return give the driver whatever they desire back, its a two way relationship that requires a certain type of driver.
Personally, I would prefer Hamilton because he is the fastest in F1 for raw speed and when he clicks, he is nearly untouchable, but Hamilton's leadership skills are non existant, Vettel seems a better leader, but I don't trust him to challenges for titles in inferior cars like schu and alo did, .......it's tough.
If someone said to me that you can have three wishes, my first would have been to get into racing, my second to be in Formula 1, my third to drive for Ferrari.
I put forth the same theory in another place, and an old forum friend of F1T posted something which I couldn't resist posting here
I'm not saying it's true, but it's an entertaining read in any case
Note: completely unabridged
Old F1T friend wrote:I don't like to give opinions, but links. I'm pretty sure you can form your own opinion. I give you three sets of quotes.
1. Who cares? It's too soon, there is a glut of drivers and a money squeeze around all Europe. Money talks, let's hear it
"Beyond the scheduling of the tests there are other concerns that prove the teams are not interested, primarily the way that many seats are seemingly sold to the highest bidder". Paddock Scout
Marty, if you (over) analyze the issue, there is no point in predicting things beyond 12/12/2012: after all, the world is going to end
2. Vettel move is a done deal.
"Alonso is contractually allowed to have a say in who his team-mate is and the report states that he has sanctioned Vettel joining him at Maranello after having vetoed any chance for Lewis Hamilton" The Guardian
You don't love me anymore. This affair is not the same, darling
"'I think they are both intelligent guys and they could easily coexist together,' declared Domenicali". SkySports
League of Justice: superheroes coexist
"Keeping him (Massa) on board, however, would make the transition to Vettel much easier than hiring a 'young gun' for twelve months". Crash.net
The Scape Goat, by Wiliam Holton. "On the Day of Atonement, a goat would have its horns wrapped with a red cloth - representing the sins of the community - and be driven off"
3. Vettel and Alonso cannot live together
"Ferrari president Luca Cordero di Montezemolo said he wanted to avoid a problem with rivalries, regardless of who was driving: '2014 is still to come but I don't want to have two roosters in the same henhouse, rather two drivers who race for Ferrari and not for themselves'". BBC
Cock fighting is illegal in Italy: that explains team orders. Those Italian guys invented the Pax Romana: then Saxons came and it all has been downhill since
"Ferrari links to Sebastian Vettel cloud Fernando Alonso's future". The Independent
Creepy Vettel: he's not going after Massa's seat but after the other one
He followed up with another post:
Old F1T friend wrote:Well, if you say Vettel will be there and then you say you cannot have two roosters, then...
After all it is hard to overanalyze enough the words "regardless of who's driving" that Montezemolo said...
Allow me to quote "the old and well known joke":
A farmer goes out one day and buys a brand new stud rooster for his chicken coop. The rooster struts over to the old rooster and says, 'OK, old fart, time to retire.'
The old rooster replies,' come on, you can't handle ALL these chickens. Look what it's done to me. Can't you just let me have the two old hens over in the corner?'
The young rooster says, 'Beat it! You're washed up and I'm taking over.' The old rooster says 'I'll tell you what, young stud, I'll race you around the farmhouse. Whoever wins gets exclusive domain over the entire chicken coop.'
The young rooster laughs, 'You know you don't stand a chance old man, so just to be fair, I'll give you a head start. 'The old rooster takes off running. About 15 seconds later the young rooster takes off after him. They round the front of the farmhouse and the young rooster has closed the gap.
He's already about 5 inches behind the old rooster and gaining fast. The farmer, meanwhile, is sitting on the front porch when he sees the roosters running by. He grabs up his shotgun and BOOM!, he blows the young rooster to bits.
The farmer sadly shakes his head, 'Damn,...third gay rooster I bought this month.'
