it just seems very odd. Mclaren was doing fine from Nov to Dec then it all went down hill after the barcelona test. if they are using new part from that period(which clearly dosen't seem to give them any preformence gain) can't they just revert back to wat they were originally using?
i tought they were also using a CF gearbox but from the pics from OZ it looks like it was a conventional metal gearbox.
will there be any test between OZ and Malaysia?...cos teams tend not to test between fly away races
I believe that the main problem is on the engine side. This is why it is out of McLaren hands. After all, Kimmi was complaining about lack of power and reliability a couple of weeks before! If you noticed, McLaren did always less laps (almost half) in all practice session and were trying to save their engines despite hurting their setup efforts. We all noticed the difference in RPMs with all other top manufacturers (Honda, BMW, Ferrari). Could it be that they were running last years engine before Christmas (which was a very good engine but cannot run under the new regulations) and all problems the started once they converted to the new 2004 spec units???
Don't you think the Mclaren staff on the pitwall looked lost the whole weekend?! I just picked up a sense of bewilderment at their lack of speed. Even the often-expressionless Ron Dennis seemed utterly gutted when Kimi's engine gave up. i don't think mclaren expected 10th and 12th or whatever it was at all. And i sincerely feel concerned for them. I would go as far as saying that they are in a mess based on the other rumours about their engine/chassis integration. HOWEVER, as has been proved by many on this forum, trying to predict what Mclaren will do is impossible (good or bad). Which means i think we should wait until Malaysia, and probably the 1st half of the season before anyone makes any rash claims.
Concerning the technical problems, I don't think a single area of the car can be pinpointed. Look at Ferrari, it could well be argued that they don't have the best engine or Aero package this year. But due to how their car works in an apparent harmony of electronics-mechanics-drivers, thats why they win. eg. Williams have an odd car with erratic drivers.
Obviously we can't say whether Mclaren need a major rethink, or just a bit more communication with Michelin/Mercedes. but i think we can all be a bit worried....
i doubth its a chasiss or tyre problem with this car. If we all note well this car is pretty much a research and intense development from last years MP4-18. So Mclaren pretty much had a whole year to get this done.the most probable problem would be either engine wise or those gearbox their tryin out(if its true they are tryin out the double clutch and the CF)or certian electrical problems. It seems to be true. The instant they tried in the Q spec engine.this problems started niggeling in.so they had to comprimise their time on testing and optimising car aero setup just to get the engine working and "intergrated" to their chasiss. By all means i think they went for all out grunt and left behind(or did not expact) the reliability to be such a pain. Cos there were romers this engine was fitting figures off the roof. So i guess it explians news floating around sayin that they detuned the engine during the race weekend as well as during the winter test period to get the reliability. But even this is not exactly working. one problem led to another and another seems to be the scenario.
but Mclaren is a great team with tons of reasouces and ppl you don't need to questions their expertise workin for them. if Kimi's word is anything to go by, they should be havin a solution coming very soon, for the engine department and all the other reliability problems should be coming along. but i doubth i will directly show in the next race. they should improve preformance wise for the next race. but i doubth the full potential of the car will be realised until at least the first european leg. cos honestly i think the MP4-19 is a marvel of a design and is capabale of going very fast. If anything they might have a season similiar to williams had last year, a torrid start but by mid season they were pretty much the team to beat. and its along season yet. and the B-spec of the 19 will be out as well.......so wonder how it would actually turn out?
i doubth its a chasiss or tyre problem with this car. If we all note well this car is pretty much a research and intense development from last years MP4-18. So Mclaren pretty much had a whole year to get this done.the most probable problem would be either engine wise or those gearbox their tryin out(if its true they are tryin out the double clutch and the CF)or certian electrical problems. It seems to be true. The instant they tried in the Q spec engine.this problems started niggeling in.so they had to comprimise their time on testing and optimising car aero setup just to get the engine working and "intergrated" to their chasiss. By all means i think they went for all out grunt and left behind(or did not expact) the reliability to be such a pain. Cos there were romers this engine was fitting figures off the roof. So i guess it explians news floating around sayin that they detuned the engine during the race weekend as well as during the winter test period to get the reliability. But even this is not exactly working. one problem led to another and another seems to be the scenario.
but Mclaren is a great team with tons of reasouces and ppl you don't need to questions their expertise workin for them. if Kimi's word is anything to go by, they should be havin a solution coming very soon, for the engine department and all the other reliability problems should be coming along. but i doubth i will directly show in the next race. they should improve preformance wise for the next race. but i doubth the full potential of the car will be realised until at least the first european leg. cos honestly i think the MP4-19 is a marvel of a design and is capabale of going very fast. If anything they might have a season similiar to williams had last year, a torrid start but by mid season they were pretty much the team to beat. and its along season yet. and the B-spec of the 19 will be out as well.......so wonder how it would actually turn out?(sori about the last post it was mine........i'm fairly new at this )
Although being a beautiful car, the MP4-19 seems, in the tradition of Newey's designs, to be a radical and aero sensitive car.
Being radically different from the MP4-17D, I doubt that McLaren is able to base their setups in last year's or to do reliable correlations between the chassis.
With the reliability issues in the Mercedes engine and the limited kms you do this year in GP practice, not being able to use last year's data and having a sensitive chassis, I figure McLaren will have the worst problems setting up the car for the GP's.
Don't know about Williams, but Ferrari and Renault are able to transfer reliably the data gathered from last year's chassis to the new ones, as their aero and mechanical concepts are similar. This year, for me, specially for the big teams, that are not able to run a 3.rd car, that it will be very important.
one has the impression that mclaren has lost the plot somewhere .daimler-chrysler has a bigger say and that´s not good for speed.
the technicians are under heavy fire with all fingerpointing and trying to keep the own book clean...not a good environment to make the huge steps required...poor Montoya......i hope the retainer will make up for the frustration.
Soon we will see the departure of Mario illien and Adrian Neway as they are fed up,this time nobody will hold them back.
Ageneral lack of comunication is the root course ,i think...much talk but no substance...
How would someone believe the drivers do not fit into the new car at first...hey did kimi and David transform to Nigel overnight???
Formula 1 is creativity driven maybe that is the problem ...with the gun in your mouth it is quite difficult to have bright ideas..
it easy to say that the inner working of Mclaren is distorted with the new entries of technical personal and the current stacke holders Daimler.....but who are we to know tat. F1 teams/companies are as tight liped about their organisation as they are about their designs( and Mclaren of all is the most). But from my view i think the larger stackes claimed by Merc/Daimler should be a helping point insted of hinderens....cos it pretty much removes a few distractions tat has to be dealt with if they don't have tat big of a backing.
Mario seems to be still having a tough time dealing with designing the engines as well as managing the company he and morgan started out(after morgan's untimely death).by merc steping in and bidding the take over of illmor.it will have taken a huge load of Mario's shoulder.(by the way just to confirm the stake bid is done right?).this is just an example of how it could be less of a hinderens and more of an advantage.yeah there is the expactation preassure...with the money being pumped in by these companies and the management support they bring in they would naturally expact results.....but everyone involved in F1 will always have the passion to exceed their own expactations.Thats their passion to succeed. and Mclaren definetly dosen't fall short of talented engineers and designers.
I just think they pushed the envolope on this car to far(..again) with kimi and david finding it hard to fit in. I can only think they forgot about short term goals and straight tried to leap for the clouds. this probably left alot of unfilled holes in the design of the car which is causing all the problem. Probably Ron would be kickin hinself and everyone for this and maybe might be the agenda for the "crisis meeting" today.but i don't think there will be finger pointing.....they are to professional for tat(they are not kids)
i think dumrick is rite at wat he said....and probably it will take sometime before there is significant result that we can oogle at...
and its rite Mclaren should not aim to get the WCC this year......but can we stop them......they are very prideful ppl.........and sayin williams and renault will be the only to challengers for the tittle......that very curt-judgement.using that we can say ferrari is going to prance over everyone 2 fold this whole season.........there is still 17 more races to go.its still early days. this is F1 who knows wat will happen till it does?
not that I would say I am an insider,far from it ...but well ,I had a Flyon the wall in the Stuttgart based Dynos ,(of course these have moved to Brixworth recently)and If you heard what the Germans thought of Illmor and their opinion who was more qualified to build the Formula 1 engine
one got an impression where the problems lie.
And there have to be big big Problems on the Interface between Mclaren ,
Mercedes and Illmor ,why else should a genius of Illiens calibre and Neway ,Coughlan just to name the very first line be unable to produce a car that can take on the work of Mr Byrne ,Ms Terzi,or Mr Willis all bright people but more clever than these ? I doubt it.So there is only the answer :it is all about interaction between all those individuals...just look at Ferrari. 8 Years ago,consensus was :you cannot do a chassis and engine in house,and as an example of the impossibility there was Ferrari
with all the best individuals,Postlethwaite,Brunner,not to forget Barnard and many more..But ,it all was to no avail as the forces where not directed ,orchestrated.Berger ,Alesi ,Alboreto and Lauda they did all their
best but only the arrival of Jean Todt did start a new direction .Then Schuhmacher with his ability to motivate the whole team (when did you ever think of michael underachieving in a race??? Monza in the wake of September 11th is the only one that springs to my mind..)
Then grouping Ross Brawn and Rory Byrne around him it was pehaps
good luck they got to know each other at Benneton and had the opportunity to rejoin at ferrari but this is the key to what was achieved
in the last years and the years to come.
What a task to motivate 700-800 employees every day every week ...
having a frontman like Schuey does wonders,believe me.This guy maximises the equipment available to an extend unbelievable or would someone argue that anybody else would have claimed the 2003 championship in a Ferrari on Bridgestones? I bet there are no bad words ,or underground streams in Ferraris workshops they are all busy working on their task ,the zero defect job.
If they don't get their car right, this could be the biggest flop of their history. Spnding so much money on it, eg:hiring aero chief Tombasiz, designer Coughlan, engine guru Dr. Werner Laurenz and can only produce and 8th placed finish. There must be other ways to add extra horses to the MB engines without risking reliability. In my opinion, should have gone for a evolution instead of revolution of their car, they can continue developing their 17d so they have better understnading of their car than their rivals, that's why they were so competetive last year.
What of the argument that says the team's focus is too diluted with the new Paragon Works and the production of the SLR? Certainly, the design/build team isn't directly involved in anything but building a state of the art F1 car, but somewhere along the line, RD must oversee all operations. Perhaps his attention and/or focus has shifted inadvertently to other areas...
)