BBC: F1's Greatest Driver

[lebesset]

enzo ferrari knew a bit about motor racing and employed some great drivers in his time

he said that the biggest mistake he ever made in his career was not somehow to retain the services of john surtees [ still the only man to win the title on 2 wheels as well as 4 ]

and yet john doesn't even appear in the top 20

[JimClarkFan]

haha i knew it Hill will be in top 3 alongside Senna and Fangio ......

Why on earth would Hill be on the list, especially when Clark hasn't appeared yet?

Youu know you've been on here too long when you can't recognise sarcasm anymore lol

[FoxHound]

and yet john doesn't even appear in the top 20

When Mansell and Piquet comfortably make the list, but Surtees does not, I have to agree lebesset...Surtees exclusion is bewildering.
But with Schumacher in at No.4(95% of people would at least have him in the top 3), this list is nothing more than a Benson wet dream. It was probably as low as Benson could place Schumacher without the list being farcical.

The Autosport poll is far more scientific, and has a cross section of opinion from drivers spanning back to 1950, right through to the modern era. Although Surtees did not fare any better in this poll either...23rd.

Here is the link to THE poll of greatest drivers.
http://f1greatestdrivers.autosport.com/how/

The top are thus:
20.Mario Andretti
19.Ronnie Peterson
18.Jack Brabham
17.Lewis Hamilton
16.Alberto Ascari
15.Mika Hakkinen
14.Jochen Rindt
13.Nelson Piquet
12.Emerson Fittipaldi
11.Nigel Mansell
10.Gilles Villeneuve
9.Fernando Alonso
8.Stirling Moss
7.Niki Lauda
6.Jackie Stewart
5.Jim Clark
4.Alain Prost
3.Juan Fangio
2.Micheal Schuamcher
1.Ayrton Senna


As with any poll, there will be selections you don't agree with. But looking at this top 20 I certainly feel there is room for Surtees.

[raymondu999]

Ah! I didn't catch that. I don't get that either now. Why is Surtees not here? More to the point - why is he not even Sir John Surtees?

About Autosport - how is it that Ronnie Peterson even outscores Surtees?

[beelsebob]

The top are thus:
20.Mario Andretti
19.Ronnie Peterson
18.Jack Brabham
17.Lewis Hamilton
16.Alberto Ascari
15.Mika Hakkinen
14.Jochen Rindt
13.Nelson Piquet
12.Emerson Fittipaldi
11.Nigel Mansell
10.Gilles Villeneuve
9.Fernando Alonso
8.Stirling Moss
7.Niki Lauda
6.Jackie Stewart
5.Jim Clark
4.Alain Prost
3.Juan Fangio
2.Micheal Schuamcher
1.Ayrton Senna


As with any poll, there will be selections you don't agree with. But looking at this top 20 I certainly feel there is room for Surtees.

That certainly looks like a much better list than the BBC's to me... I would tend to put Schumacher a little lower down, and Clark & Hakkinnen (I honestly think he was a better driver than Schumacher... Just in a worse car) a bit higher up, but we'll always have personal differences on these things.

[JimClarkFan]

It is not just Benson who makes the list, it is supposedly several members of the BBC team. Murray Walker reckons that Michael Schumacher is number 1, I have seen him say in interview that he felt Fangio was the best until Schumacher turned Ferrari around.

In other words, there are a few more descenting voices in there other than Benson. Coultard, and other BBC analyst would also have to put Schumacher lower down - I can't think we they would do that

[FoxHound]

I rate hakkinen too, I was a great fan of his during the Schumi v hakkinen days.

On pure speed I would agree. But that's why hakkinen could never be the greatest, he didn't have the capacity Schumacher had to dare I say it, "think".
Overall, Schumacher is superior to hakkinen. He was multi faceted whereas hakkinen was the one dimensional maximum attack.

[raymondu999]

It is not just Benson who makes the list, it is supposedly several members of the BBC team. Murray Walker reckons that Michael Schumacher is number 1, I have seen him say in interview that he felt Fangio was the best until Schumacher turned Ferrari around.

Muzza blows hot and cold on number one. He always changes opinions. Probably when he made this list it wasn't Michael.

I rate hakkinen too, I was a great fan of his during the Schumi v hakkinen days.

On pure speed I would agree. But that's why hakkinen could never be the greatest, he didn't have the capacity Schumacher had to dare I say it, "think".
Overall, Schumacher is superior to hakkinen. He was multi faceted whereas hakkinen was the one dimensional maximum attack.

Hence why I felt a shudder when I saw the first ever photo of Alonso in Ferrari gear together with Hamilton in McLaren gear - It felt so right, like a rerun of Hakkinen-Schumacher.

[xDama]

All this controversy about the BBC-list is quite strange. It doesn't matter who makes these kind of lists, they will always be a subjective view/recognition of facts and events over time. Every person has its own perspective on things, as do the guys in BBC or for instance Autosport. Even the most objective person, will always have a deeper subjective view on things, especially in F1.

Tbh I think as well the list of BBC as the list of Autosport isn't 100% 'correct', but that's my own personal feeling. Mika Hakkinen is underrated on both lists, Hamilton/Mansell are a bit overrated on the BBC list, etc... But what I do agree on with both lists, is that Schumacher isn't on P1. Before his comeback I would place him on P2 behind Senna, without a doubt. But after his comeback he's hanging between P3/P4 for me.

[ninogenio]

for me before his comeback he was possably p2-3 now i personally rate him p1. its the mark of a true champion to take a team and car as bad as mercedes and still even yet not say a bad word. plus i honestly think he is still the same champion he always was he pushes too the limit and sometimes there is a crash but if thats the case so be it. then he has had some stunning drives spa 2010 canada 2010 monaco 2011 etc all while waves of people were shouting for him too go and with his age.

hes a diffrent happyer easyer going chap now a days. but if he had been in seb's seat these last few years we could have been looking at 10 time wdc.

[snoop1050]

I'm just waiting for ayrton senna.

lets see if thet mention monaco 1985 where he went out purely to block a rival...
the illegal brake ducts he got disqualified for
taking the spare car after the race had already started hoping noone would notice in brazil and being black flagged for it.
and the endless list of other stuff he did.

hes atleast as "tainted" as schumacher if not more so but i bet it all gets brushed aside so they can tell us what a hero and a god senna is the perfect human being

[clipsy1H]

I'm just waiting for ayrton senna.

lets see if thet mention monaco 1985 where he went out purely to block a rival...
the illegal brake ducts he got disqualified for
taking the spare car after the race had already started hoping noone would notice in brazil and being black flagged for it.
and the endless list of other stuff he did.

hes atleast as "tainted" as schumacher if not more so but i bet it all gets brushed aside so they can tell us what a hero and a god senna is the perfect human being

doesn't matter.... Senna was a great champion maybe the greatest if he hadn't died ..... i'm also think he's a little overrated because of this but he deserve to be in top 3.... you know Benson and others British people dislike Michael but to not place him in top 3 of all time mean you are brain-dead

[snoop1050]

No doubt senna was a great champion but the criteria drivers are getting judged on seems to vary vastly from one driver to the next.

It's not how an unbiased article is created surely?

[mnmracer]

FYI, that autosport list is actually from 2009.

I believe a pre-2nd career BBC list would have put Schumacher 2nd at least.

[lebesset]

[quote="raymondu999"]Ah! I didn't catch that. I don't get that either now. Why is Surtees not here? More to the point - why is he not even Sir John Surtees?

good point , why not SIR john , not only a great driver but a fine ambassador for the sport , far more deserving of the honour than other recipients I can think of [ as recent events show ]