Will F1 lose its crown as the pinnacle of motorsport?

[MIKEY_!]

Of course there have to be some limitations on how fast racing can be but lately F1 seems to have been limited too much. There has been a worrying amount of talk comparing F1 to GP2 in terms of raw speed, while F1 is not yet that slow the fact that people even make this comparison shows they are getting too close. If some billionaire businessman (or group of them) were to set up a new formula with less restrictions on performance (without disregarding safety) and on a similar scale to F1, would it be viable? Exactly what form it would take is up to your imagination, nearly unrestricted Le Mans cars, nerfed F1/A1GP cars, etc but we are talking about competition for F1 so no rally stages. Could this happen now (given the economic problems in the world), once the economy is better (assuming F1 does not get any slower) or would F1 have to get a lot slower? Most importantly could it take the crown of 'the pinnacle of motorsport' ?

[Jersey Tom]

Faster isn't inherently better racing, so no.

[RB7ate9]

Only if the level of unbridled technology of the teams surpasses F1. That means little to no intent to be "road-car relevant". That means it can't just be a spec-series with uber-fast cars a-la Red Bull's X2011. It has to be a series that has fastER cars that pits engineering, as well as drivers, against each other.

Realistically, there's no pool of money that can challenge F1 on those terms (barring a sudden alliance between the richest men, corporations, and governments in the world).

[WhiteBlue]

I will always watch Le Mans. But that isn't a series but just the biggest race on the planet. So F1 will remain the top of the pile particularly as it is adapting to the modern age now. I think that F1 is taking a very good direction and will become more entertaining in the years to come.

[Dragonfly]

I think exactly the perception by some people of "modern age" is the reason for turning F1 into just another series and an artificial "show".
I always fear overly enthusiastic people because they can do a lot more damage in good intent.

[hyde and zeek]

Racing can be of 2 minds (or more), find the best driver (spec series) or find the best road car design (Touring Car). Rules are meant to level the field, but often lead to the best combo of drive and technology. I think Le Mans with the "energy" limit per mile/km will bring out the best in new technology, but series like F1 bring out the best in drivers (SV, MW, LH, JB, FA, FM, MS, NR, etc) and teams. And WTCC, BTCC, ALMS, Grand AM, DTM, etc. try to bring the best out of a road car design.

[mzivtins]

Group C nearly did this (some would argue, it did!) the trouble was, thats when we saw regulation changes come in that destroyed group C, as many may say could have been specifically to limit its progress so it was not able to carry on growing and overtake F1 in many ways.

It is possible for a series to get close, but FIA or most governing bodies would maybe be pushed to make it NOT happen.

It has happened in MotoGP however, with Rossi having come out and said 'MotoGP is BORING' it seems every feels they are finally able to voice their opinions... with that being Moto2 is so much more fun to watch! But motoGP is very sterile, at leats F1 this isn't the case... yet.

[rich1701]

I think there is definitely a market for another series. But It would have to have serious backing from some manufacturers and it would need at least a couple of big names poached from F1.

There is something wrong with Formula 1. Financially Formula 1 is a very profitable business, and as long as that continues there is little motivation to change it. But the spectacle the sport has deteriorated considerably over the past 20 years. Formula 1 is not half the sport it used to be and is going in the wrong direction. Smaller engines is just another rule that makes F1 less attractive for me as a fan. F1 should be the ultimate challenge for car and driver, and that factor is diminishing.

Here are just some of the things i think is wrong with Formula 1

Modern Circuits are merely generic variations of each other.
Run off areas mean drivers can't be punished for mistakes.
Safety car rules particularly for wet conditions way too overbearing.
Drivers are purged of any trace of personality to bow to commercial conformity.
Ticket prices are way too high because circuits have to pay Bernie extortionate fees.
FOM bans anyone from uploading videos on the internet and yet F1's popularity with young people is at an all time low??



F1 needs to be more challenging, more spectacular, and louder! Bring back titanium skid blocks so we can see sparks again.

[autogyro]

Formula E is a series and will be the vanguard for future of top performance car racing on this planet.
Get on board now before the real internal combustion engine rot sets in.
In 2015 this will be obvious to everyone including Bernie.

[Jersey Tom]

Financially Formula 1 is a very profitable business

To be precise, it is profitable for some but not all involved parties.

[Sombrero]

F-1 never was the pinnacle of motorsport. You cannot resume motorsport to a single serie, even it's F-1.

The 80's were the pinnacle of motorsport with good F-1 & Indy racing, fantastic sportscars (IMSA GTP, WSC) and rallying (group B).

The 60's also are worth remembering and not only for F-1. It's also a classical era for sportscar and prototype and the Indy Races were breathtaking...

The 70's were a difficult era for motor racing not unlike today. In the mid 90's we had very bad racing... everywhere.

The biggest problem of F-1 right now is the tyre mismanagement by the FiA and Pirelli. You can't claim to be the pinnacle of motorsport with only two and a half manufacturers now in F-1 : FIAT, Mercedes and Renault.

[Ganxxta]

F1 needs to be more challenging, more spectacular, and louder! Bring back titanium skid blocks so we can see sparks again.

+1 On your whole Post, but this part I agree most with.

I would like to see those sparks eg. in Singapore at night and some oldschool downshift backfire from the exhaust like in the good old days, where the cars in the slow-mos were just gorgeous...


I keep dreaming [-o<

[wesley123]

Where is the option 'I dont eatch f1, but I would watch a new series'? It sure seems fitting in the poll.

As on it being 'the pinnacle of engineering', that is hard to say. LMP isnt any less of a pinnacle, both made their huge grounds, and both learned from each other, that happened in the 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s and 00s, and it still does.

The problem is that they are trying to make F1 something it is not. in the 60 years of F1 it has never been cheap or well accesible for less wealthier teams. And with that teams come and go, as so did the factory teams, they came and left as soon as it wasnt useful anymore. And no one ever saw a problem with that, why is it now?

Factory teams will come and go when the market value is there to do so. In the 70s and 80s Renault had huge success doing so by their turbo engines. But in the 00s they didnt manage to fully use the market value F1 can bring, neither did Toyota, BMW, or any other. And guess what? Then they'll leave. Why did they leave? Toyota couldnt show off their 'electrical power' that was revolutionairy for the Prius and neither could BMW and the others. They have nothing to show, and therefore wont take more or less notice in the consumer market.

Take an example in the LMPs, it is a well accesible environment, small teams can pretty easy take the jump into LMPs. And for the past 12 years we saw Audi in there, Audi is in LMP now for much longer than any manufacturer was in F1. Why? Becuase it has market value, Audi could show off their FSI tech in Le Mans, their Diesel tech and so on. But is an LMP Road Car relevant? No it is not.

F1 needs to open up, and then especially on the mechanical part. LEt them allow a V12 turbo if they want to, and no it isnt road car relevant, but those engines will get development, and engineers will learn from those things. These things will get developped further and further, and at a point will come out road car relevant, since the Road cars can make use of these techniques learned in motor racing.

Lets take an example; A carbon tub, well known all over motor racing, is it road car relevant? no, yet it has opened up the way for road cars to take the lessons learned and apply it to their cars, in either carbon fibre body parts or full carbon cars, to which we are getting ever and ever closer.

An F1 car, or LMP, or whatever thing we are talking about, doesnt have to be road car relevant, evolution in motor racing will get its place soon enough if it has proven useful in racing vehicles, and making a racing vehicle more or less road car relevant doesnt change that.

And then on another part, with less road car relevance, they will have a broader spectrum to work on, so 'the limit of the rules' will be hit much later, as there is more room for improvement. Not only is there more room for improvement in the cars itself, there is also more room in evolution, evolution which might be useful for road cars, but maybe also in airplanes, spaceshuttles, or any other thing.

Formula 1 has never been road car relevant and it has never been cheap/easily accesible either, so why should that change out of a sudden? Teams came and left all the time over these 60 years, and the only reason that that is limited now is because the FIA puts up ridiculous requirements for teams. 40 mil entry fee is way too much, and so is the rest of the fee's. As well as a 2 car team being required is complete rubbish.

F1 is trying something it has never been, and never should be, and people will realise soon enough that it isnt the right way to go

[ESPImperium]

F1 i feel is loosing this slowly. I know personally i am watching more LMP/WEC when i can.

F1 has 3 main problems:

Team Profitability:

There are some teams already making a profit due to running their operations lean and efficiently, however the top teams are operating at a loss and the bottom ones are operating at a massive loss since 2009 when they got their entry. I think cost control is needed, cap the top guys, they will only be spending up to €17m - €22m less than present. However id also make it that the bottom teams have to have a fixed budget of €65m in order to get a decent car to the first event evert season.

How id do this:

* Prize fund of 1.2 Billion Euro every season
* Split into €32.5m payout to every team at the start of every season (Thats €390m used)
* What is left id split into a prize of €10m for P12, with the team in P11 getting 22.5% more, than the team below and yada dada, so P1 would get €93m in prize money.
* With €853.1m used up the rest would be split into a percentage system where teams that have been in the sport longer get more to play with, so Ferrari would get €70.5m and Red Bull would get €16.8m, witch would mean that STR would get €30.2m to add something that may not be liked by Red Bull. Its all down to when the original entry of that team was from, so Mercedes would be from Toleman, Red Bull from Stewart and Force India from Jordan.
* That would put mean that long termer teams in F1 would generate most of their budget from F1 and teams like Red Bull would have to inject something. However teams like HRT would get a minimum of €46m as an estimate.
* It would mean that teams could afford to get a decent driver and a pay driver to get their minimum budget requirement.

Fiscally F1 would be viable in this respect.

Secondly id look to the regulatory and feeder systems;

The FIA would get their Euro from a €300m pot that would be from the F1 promotion pot, id give them €50m, which is €20m more than what they really need. They do a good job, a thankless one at times. It would also mean that the teams may not have the same vocal critics in the paddock from some teams as they have their Euro and the FIA have theirs.

Feeder systems would be in the F1 promotional pot, GP2 and GP3 are both good systems, GP2 would be required to follow F1 for 16 of the 22 races id have on a calendar. GP3 would be a 12 race season. The GP3 teams would get €9m each with each GP2 team getting €13m each. This gives them more of a profit, meaning they can carry less pay drivers witch will give a better talent into F1. However GP2 would become slightly more technical, the present car would be a good base, but with DRS and KERS added with a F1 style engine/gearbox rule (4 weekends to each power-train inc batteries and 6 weekends per gearbox) and they would be given a spec wheel with the MES display and ECU running and a few rotaries. GP3 would be left fine. A GP2 teams budget per year would be €24m tops and a GP3 teams budget would be €15m tops. Also for a driver to be eligible to graduate from GP3 to GP2 they need to have 30 GP3 races under their belt and from GP2 to F1 would be 40 GP2 races as well, or 5,000Km seat time over the past two years in FP1 or Test day seats in F1.

Thus there is a standard of driver coming into F1 and drivers are known.

Id have a price per point for drivers and constructors to pay the FIA in a success tax, with the tax not being paid for the first 100 points for both championships.

Id also bring in a standard penalty system across the F1/GP2/GP3 where reprimands are enforced like a iron fist. First one a 5 place drop, second a 10 place drop, Third a race ban, 4th another 10 place drop, then upon a 5th a 3 race ban. It would mean that F1 teams may have to select a GP2 driver for a weekend or 3, or a Bottas to step in.

Also Technical regs would have to be stable for at least 3 to 5 years at a time and only 10% changed every year, meaning there is a cost implication where you save time over time with diminishing returns on performance, and it gives you a tighter grid towards the end of those 3 to 5 years.

Thirdly, id look at tracks, promoters should have a voice, and a right to make money, id make each track pay €30m for a race, but races are awarded as "Franchises" and if they dont turn a profit for 5 successive races they get dumped, but the profits are split 65/35% in favor of the tracks, the 30% profit goes to FOM, so if a track pulls a €10m profit they give FOM €33.5m that year. However if they make a loss, the loss is on the track, and FOM get €30m minimum.

It makes the successful tracks be the ones you want to go to as they are full for 3 or 4 days, and it also forces tracks to have at least 160,000 in them. And if you have 480,000 seats being charged at €50 a seat minimum, you will be €24m of the way to the €30m. However benefactor tracks would be also allowed, so tracks like Abu Dhabi that have 50,000 seats can operate as they have a owner/benefactor that will help them financially.

The minimum this would bring would be €660m a season,

As for the rest of the €1.5billion that would be ploughed into F1, it would come from TV deals like the Sky/BBC one, where each country has a main PPV broadcaster and a half season deal, so if there was only 25 countries took F1, it would be €33.6m per country, with the main deal being €25m a season and the half deal being €8.6m. Radio deals would be profit as they would be €2.25m a season, and online deals being a area for exploitation.

F1 has plenty going, but the share of how it is going is what is difficult to get right, and plenty opportunity to make money for Bernie and his stakeholders. I think there is a way for F1 as a whole to make a profit, and bernie just isnt going about it ion the right manner.

[jdlive]

I think there is definitely a market for another series. But It would have to have serious backing from some manufacturers and it would need at least a couple of big names poached from F1.

There is something wrong with Formula 1. Financially Formula 1 is a very profitable business, and as long as that continues there is little motivation to change it. But the spectacle the sport has deteriorated considerably over the past 20 years. Formula 1 is not half the sport it used to be and is going in the wrong direction. Smaller engines is just another rule that makes F1 less attractive for me as a fan. F1 should be the ultimate challenge for car and driver, and that factor is diminishing.

Here are just some of the things i think is wrong with Formula 1

Modern Circuits are merely generic variations of each other.
Run off areas mean drivers can't be punished for mistakes.
Safety car rules particularly for wet conditions way too overbearing.
Drivers are purged of any trace of personality to bow to commercial conformity.
Ticket prices are way too high because circuits have to pay Bernie extortionate fees.
FOM bans anyone from uploading videos on the internet and yet F1's popularity with young people is at an all time low??



F1 needs to be more challenging, more spectacular, and louder! Bring back titanium skid blocks so we can see sparks again.

Fantastic post! =D>