Run-Off Area Alternatives

[raymondu999]

My take on it is - I don't like walls. I don't want a situation where the guy gets taken out of the race by a wall, because I have less action to watch on track.

I think runoffs are needed to an extent, because I don't want people to get hurt. So IMO, enough but not excessive. Enough to mean people don't get injured.

I just want something to make sure they don't leave the track, but it doesn't:
a) take them out of the grand prix
and
b) hurt them

[Kiril Varbanov]

+1 on what Raymond said above.

First, it's the security. I'm sure that some of you guys has had car accidents, and we all know just how unpleasant that is.
I can't really predict just how bad it is to hit a wall with 260 km/h, but I suspect it might be bad...

I can't really agree that run-off areas are necessarily a bad thing, simply because they:
1. Save lifes
2. Allow the drivers to push more, knowing that there's a way out

What could make those areas more attractive is potential change of the covering material which should allow the drivers to go back to the race, but it will be a low-grip one, and they will be forced to slow down and creep back, but not take him out of the race. I do feel it's extremely harsh to punish a whole team's efforts and ruining so much money for a single mistake.

[WhiteBlue]

The primary purpose of a run off is to absorb kinetic energy where a partial or total loss of control by a driver would cause a car to crash into a barrier at a blunt angle. There is absolutely not alternative to run offs for providing this safety function. So run offs will be required in the future according to the speed of the cars. The higher the performance the deeper the run offs will have to be. Optimum barrier and passive crash safety technology can enhance the safety provided by run offs but I assume that all circuits will use the TechPro state of the art barriers in critical areas anyway. And the crash requirements of the cars will always improve.

Adding bumps or astro turf slip stripes are counter productive to the purpose of the run offs. So any application of such obstacles must be used very restrictively. I'm not saying you can have nothing of this kind but you can't make them so drastic that they make the driver loose much more control of the car or you defeat the purpose of the run off.

So the best alternative is very abrasive material and potentially a small gravel trap between the end of the run off and the barrier. Drivers who have gone too deep into the run off would be punished by being stuck in the gravel but it would not reduce the energy absorbing feature too much.

[Absolutelee]

I think Karthikeyan's brake failure and subsequent spin in Korea demonstrates exactly why we do need some run-off area. I agree with the people arguing for a compromise. All gravel would also be bad, because I believe if there had been gravel there instead of tarmac, he would have entered the gravel sideways and his floor would have dug in causing the car to roll. Some runoff is definitely necessary.

[jdlive]

First, it's the security. I'm sure that some of you guys has had car accidents, and we all know just how unpleasant that is.
I can't really predict just how bad it is to hit a wall with 260 km/h, but I suspect it might be bad...

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AqaVqx9AepY[/youtube]

Question: with a current F1 car, would a driver survive a frontal crash against a wall at 250 kph?

[notsofast]

A cheaper and more effective proposal: any driver who leaves the track during the race is to be black-flagged immediately without recourse. If you got pushed off the track by another driver, then the stewards may investigate and give that other driver a suitable penalty. But you're still black-flagged. I would possibly suspend black flags only for cars that are fitted with intermediates or full wets.

[ecapox]

I think after the curbs, there should be a 1m width of asphalt and then a 2m width of gravel. After the gravel it should be abrasive asphalt. This would allow the same level of runoffs and speed decreases, while also "penalising" drivers that get a little too agressive when exiting turns or attempting to pass.

[mzivtins]

Question: with a current F1 car, would a driver survive a frontal crash against a wall at 250 kph?

I feel that giving the shape of the tub the F1 car would deflect the impact, the front end of those LMP cars is very wide, so deflection off the barrier happens a lot less, more crumple really. We always see F1 cars deflect and scrape down the side of the barriers. Other cars, say the Porsche's raced in the super cup, often get sideways, hit a barrier and crumple or flip due to poor deflection off of the barrier.

Unfortunately in other road-car based motorsports there is little they can do unless the base road car is VERY good, like the mclaren F1:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mUPq760LC00[/youtube]
Although it is hard to see from the video if this would help with a barrier, you can still see that the car is very distinctively V shaped at the front in its chassis. Maybe having the pointy nose is where its at

[zonk]

Question: with a current F1 car, would a driver survive a frontal crash against a wall at 250 kph?

The answer:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u1j48CPf ... re=related[/youtube]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AtrzvwayniM[/youtube]

[jdlive]

Very interesting. Why don't we have a crash-topic here? Would be a lot more interesting than run off alternatives or safety, no?

[FW17]

I had a few suggestions for this but I'll add this one to it

I do support asphalt runoffs as the sport has matured and our outlook on health and safety has evolved. Unfortunately they make the circuits lack greenery (grass and trees) and barriers that are too far off to cause a car to retire. I guess that wishing for retirements due to diver error is not going to happen.

However the trend now is that drivers who run wide by intention or error go unpunished. Few areas have speed humps for cutting chicanes, but that it.

I suggest 2 things here;

1) The hard runoff areas to be lined along the track edge with a strip (about 1.5 times the width of the car) of super slippery surface. Something along the lines of polished granite. This does not defeat the purpose of the hard run off as it is further away, but spins the car around of the rear wheels hit this surface.

2) The rest of the hard runoff areas to be lined in a random manner with flexible bollards which will cause damage to wing and floor but does not affect the functioning of the run off .

[WhiteBlue]

not such a bad idea either

[blrdy]

no wonder all the modern race drivers have such huge records,or will get.back in the 80´s-90´s a mistake cost you the right to carry on,so alot harder to stay on the limit.nowadys all are constantly on,or just over the limit,due to the runnoffs.i disslike this alot.saftey is important,but thats what the crash cell is for,i thought.they lower the curbs,at most low speed chicanes,why?they said at this years race at india,after massas curb crash,they lowered them,to save the cars.well,don´t go to fast into the chicane,or you will be out.full stop.stop helping the drivers drive unfair,and say it´s for saftey.it not right.

[Nickel]

Magnets. Really strong magnets. Go all four wheels outside the white lines? Magnets will take care of you. You could run much smaller runoff areas, as well as punish drivers for being over-ambitious. Insert a metal plate between the skid plate and the reference plane, and voila. Something would have to be figured out to prevent the magnets from wiping out the electronics on the vehicle... or not

[MIKEY_!]

one of the biggest issues with run-off areas is fans being too far from the action. maybe grandstands could be built closer to the track but raised perhaps 5 meters off the ground, that way the fans are closer but the run-off area is preserved. Of course there are structural problems with this and if a car got airborne it could hit the grandstand. a car on fire beneath the stands might be an issue as well, (probably along with a whole load of other problems I haven't thought of). that's my 10 cents anyway