Hamilton vs Rosberg and Button vs Perez in 2013

[godlameroso]

Something fishy is going on in McLaren, in Singapore and Abu Dhabi the exact same circumstances. Hamilton is the fastest by a mile, crushing all with authority, and bam the same exact faliure both times. It seems Vettel or Button are the only drivers this year allowed to fly off into the distance from the lead, barring Rosberg's China win. In fact Vettel has never won a race this year unless he started on the front row.

[raymondu999]

That's not factually correct - he started Singapore in P3

[godlameroso]

True true I stand corrected, I don't know if Vettel passed Maldonado in the race but if it wasn't for Hamilton's "failure" there was absolutely no way Vettel would have won. In any case if Hamilton dominates again I expect another "failure" leading to DNF.

If you saw the post qualifying interview, he spoke words as if he knew his car was going to DNF. I mentioned earlier how Montoya received similar treatment before he got canned by McLaren. I for one look forward to his move to Mercedes, they have the technical talent, they have learned lessons this year, and I'm sure he's bringing technical details with him in some capacity. I wouldn't be surprised if Mercedes have been basically testing parts since Hungary, preparing for the next car. It would make sense seeing as Mercedes are going clean sheet.

[Cold Fussion]

True true I stand corrected, I don't know if Vettel passed Maldonado in the race but if it wasn't for Hamilton's "failure" there was absolutely no way Vettel would have won. In any case if Hamilton dominates again I expect another "failure" leading to DNF.

If you saw the post qualifying interview, he spoke words as if he knew his car was going to DNF. I mentioned earlier how Montoya received similar treatment before he got canned by McLaren. I for one look forward to his move to Mercedes, they have the technical talent, they have learned lessons this year, and I'm sure he's bringing technical details with him in some capacity. I wouldn't be surprised if Mercedes have been basically testing parts since Hungary, preparing for the next car. It would make sense seeing as Mercedes are going clean sheet.

I don't know what interview you saw but none of the ones showed on Sky didn't point to some conspiracy theory.

[godlameroso]

the post qualifying interview, he said words like hopefully, as if he was anticipating it, watch it again.

[FW17]

There is something in the 4 drivers that makes me feel that things don't go exactly right with these guys.

Hamilton and button were in Mclaren for the last 3 years; and the team on race weekends were in absolute shambles. This year they started with the best car, and still have a very good car but they keep shooting themselves in the foot. People blame the team being complacent but I for one feel that the teams performance is inspired by the drivers.

Lot of it is not agreeable (even to me) but....

Looking back, Ferrari had MS in the 2000's and --- never happened or was isolated for just a race, could be said it was the whole team with JT, RB, RB etc but still I think MS's no tolerance and ruthless focus to win was translated to the teams operation at every weekend

The same can be said about FA in 2006 when he publiclly demanded Renault to up their game.

Mclaren in 2007 was a lot different to 2006. It was as if the very presence of FA changed things.

Mclaren were back to their same self in 2008, the rest do not matter.

SV was all over the place in 2010, however RB was totally different in 2011 and 12

Looking at Hamilton Rosberg Button Perez, if the team is looking to draw inspiration from these guys, it just not going to happen.

[Stradivarius]

I think it is difficult, if not impossible to predict who will be the best. I think. Whenever a driver comes to a new team there are people who have strong opinions about how they will perform compared to their team mates, but it usually turns out that they didn't know what they were talking about.

Another point is that two drivers can perform very differently and still the picture isn't very clear. Button and Hamilton is a good example. They are very different and Hamilton is definitely faster than Button. But he doesn't score more points, as Button seems better capable of staying out of trouble. If we add together all the points they have each scored since 2010, Hamilton is currently at 632 points, while Button is at 637 points. In other words, they are quite even, although Hamilton is faster and has more race wins. It seems that Hamilton has had more bad luck this year, but I also think that Button's poor form in the mid season could also be down to bad luck in some way.

So maybe it will be the same situation with their new team mates. Rosberg might not be as quick as Hamilton, but more consistent. While Perez seems a bit inconsistent already. But as I said already: It's really not possible to predict, so it will be interesting to see.

[beelsebob]

Another point is that two drivers can perform very differently and still the picture isn't very clear. Button and Hamilton is a good example. They are very different and Hamilton is definitely faster than Button. But he doesn't score more points

Really? He demolished button in 2010, had his worst ever year in F1 in 2011, and still came close to Button, and in 2012 would have more than twice as many points as button if his car hadn't been the least reliable PoS on the grid.

[GrizzleBoy]

Another point is that two drivers can perform very differently and still the picture isn't very clear. Button and Hamilton is a good example. They are very different and Hamilton is definitely faster than Button. But he doesn't score more points, as Button seems better capable of staying out of trouble. If we add together all the points they have each scored since 2010, Hamilton is currently at 632 points, while Button is at 637 points. In other words, they are quite even, although Hamilton is faster and has more race wins. It seems that Hamilton has had more bad luck this year, but I also think that Button's poor form in the mid season could also be down to bad luck in some way.

Its quite sad that this is how things are going to go down in history tbh.

Lewis has decimated Jenson this year purely through better driving, be it setting the car up on Friday, securing better starting positions on Saturday quali and racing to better positions on Sunday.

McLaren have "unintentionally" sabotaged any chance of Lewis showing the world what the real difference between the two of them is on the race track in 2012, which funny enough turns out to be the year Lewis is leaving.

Dead engine in Abu Dhabi, broken suspension in Suzuka, broken suspension in Korea, dead gearbox in Singapore...all after his announcement.

He'd have had a gap to Button in the championship of almost an ADDITIONAL 100 points (to what he was already leading Jenson by) from just those grand prix alone had he been given a car that works.

That's not even including the 20 second pit time losses in Bahrain, the 6 second pit time losses in China, the mechanics leaving old tyres in front of Lewis' wheels and other calamities in Valencia which forced him to push harder, the easy 25 points lost in Barcelona for not putting fuel in his car.....that's at least another 60-70 points easy....literally thrown away from mistakes not even rookie teams make.


IMO, it wouldn't be good for McLarens "brand" (or sponsors) to see Lewis easily dominating the only driver they'll have left at season end by almost 200 points.....so having Button finish as close to or ahead of Lewis as possible will help them give the image that they are not losing much when Hamilton leaves.

[PlatinumZealot]

I never thought about it like that.. there could be a real conspiracy a foot. A conspiracy worth millions of sponsorship dollars.

[Websta]

P2 in constructors is worth more than "potentially upset" sponsors...

[raymondu999]

I never thought about it like that.. there could be a real conspiracy a foot. A conspiracy worth millions of sponsorship dollars.

Alternatively, there could be real incompetence afoot

P2 in constructors is worth more than "potentially upset" sponsors...

To be fair - we don't know how much P2 is worth.

[Websta]

P2 in constructors is worth more than "potentially upset" sponsors...

To be fair - we don't know how much P2 is worth.

True, but it is worth many millions more than P3 I assume and that would really erode any already marginal incentive to do something as crazy as sabotage a driver (who was in a position to fight for the title still in Singapore) just to appease sponsors.

Edit: I dunno, it seems a bit far-fetched

[Nando]

To Mclaren though i suppose it´s not worth anything. P2 is the first of the losers as Ron use to say.

[NathanOlder]

Yeah, I remember those words. Anyway, After all the rubbish thats happened to Lewis' car this season, I find it hard to understand when some people say "why would you leave Mclaren"