Pique Jr - Alonso would be WDC in a Lotus or Sauber

[Cylinder]

"The Ferrari is worse than those two, but sometimes a miracle is done because of Alonso. I think if he was in a Sauber or Lotus he would be world champion easily,"

"I see those cars (Lotus and Sauber) in the front sometimes, but there is always the question: is it the car or the driver?"

[astracrazy]

fed up of this fools comments now. Who cares what he says

[banibhusan]

This statement is way too much exaggerated. Lotus and Sauber are good cars but they are not way ahead of the Ferrari. Ferrari is a fast and consistent car. May be he could have extracted bit more out of those cars but saying that he would have won the WDC with a Lotus/Sauber keeping the RBR being is simply outrageous.

[mnmracer]

If he could jump around at will, and only be in Lotus in races like Bahrain and Hungary. But then, so would Vettel have already been WDC if he had a Ferrari in Spain or Monza.

Come to think of it though, when was the Sauber really better than the Ferrari? The only thing it has is that qualifying pace and race pace are about the same, but Ferrari have better race pace.

[Cylinder]

fed up of this fools comments now. Who cares what he says

Yeah, he's only an ex f1 driver.

We know way more than him about F1 and how these cars drive.

[krisfx]

If he could jump around at will, and only be in Lotus in races like Bahrain and Hungary. But then, so would Vettel have already been WDC if he had a Ferrari in Spain or Monza.

Come to think of it though, when was the Sauber really better than the Ferrari? The only thing it has is that qualifying pace and race pace are about the same, but Ferrari have better race pace.

When Perez was catching Alonso in China? The only reason he didn't overtake him was inexperience...

[stefan_]

Who is Piquet Jr. again?

[FoxHound]

But then, so would Vettel have already been WDC if he had a Ferrari in Spain or Monza.

Why would Vettel want a Ferrari when he has a Red Bull?

[mnmracer]

But then, so would Vettel have already been WDC if he had a Ferrari in Spain or Monza.

Why would Vettel want a Ferrari when he has a Red Bull?

If you don't know the answer to that question in regards to what I said, I can only ask
Have you even been watching those races?

[FoxHound]

If you don't know the answer to that question in regards to what I said, I can only ask
Have you even been watching those races?

Would you want a fast car for 2 races, or one that dominates the most?

[Cylinder]

If you don't know the answer to that question in regards to what I said, I can only ask
Have you even been watching those races?

Would you want a fast car for 2 races, or one that dominates the most?

You cannot reason with this guy, Iv'e seen some of his posts on autosport....

There was a 50 page thread in there the other day with an in depth discussion on the topic of.

Which car is faster, Red Bull or Ferrari?

With certain individuals arguing the cars are the same pace.

[raymondu999]

With a season that is so up and down - we have to remember the Ferrari has been bulletproof (except for Q3 Monza). In a topsy turvy season this is important to help you capitalise on others' unreliability - a statement which I don't think anyone can argue with. To finish first, first you have to finish.

Also in such a topsy turvy season I don't think the overall season pecking order is very clear. IMO the Ferrari has never been the outright quickest over a weekend (when it had equal fastest race pace, it generally had worse quali pace which hindered it) but I think there was a stretch over the European season where the Ferrari was consistently 2nd or 3rd best, whereas the others were flipping all around. Sometimes having a straight B on the report card is better than one A and 5 Ds, if you catch the analogy. I'm not saying it was a dominant car over that stretch - but it was no slouch.

[FoxHound]

But we could say that Vettel was underperforming in the first half of the season, particularly in relation to Webber.

Webber was leading Vettel by Germany if my memory serves correctly?
But suddenly the car become's clearly the best to have, and Vettel leads Webber now by over 100 points.

There is a very definite lesson to be gained from this. Vettel needs a fast car to lead out from the front. When he does not have the best car, his results are mixed.
Which leads me to think, had Vettel been sat in a Ferrari this year and Alonso a Red Bull, the championship would not still be alive.

[raymondu999]

FoxHound if that reply was meant for my post - my post wasn't even intended in the context of that. I was just arguing that over the balance of the season average, the Ferrari is not a superdog as some people might think.

But to reply to your post: to be completely honest - I don't think it's a question of driving. IMO Vettel's driving skill and speed is still top class.

Take a look at qualifying. That isn't affected by being "in the pack" vs "in the front." IMO when Vettel doesn't have a frontrunning car his head drops, rather than him driving worse due to a lack of skill. After his first pole (and incidentally, his first victory too) in Bahrain, Vettel's results markedly improved and was never beaten by Webber (on a race by race basis) except for Webber specialty circuits Silverstone and Monaco.

In fact - odd as it may sound (I just realised this when I opened Wikipedia to check their race results) Webber has only beaten Vettel in race finishes 4 times all year - Malaysia, China, Monaco and Valencia.

The 4 races:
Malaysia - Vettel contact with Karthikeyan
China - Vettel straight-up outclassed
Monaco - Vettel straight-up outclassed
Valencia - alternator failure.

Bizarre, really, especially given that Vettel only re-overtook Webber in the standings post-Belgium. Absolutely bizarre.

On topic and on Piquet - IMO, on balance of the season, the Ferrari has been more competitive than the Lotus and the Sauber. The Lotus and Sauber have probably had higher "high points" than the Ferrari, but they have also had lower "low points."

[Gerhard Berger]

FoxHound if that reply was meant for my post - my post wasn't even intended in the context of that. I was just arguing that over the balance of the season average, the Ferrari is not a superdog as some people might think.

But to reply to your post: to be completely honest - I don't think it's a question of driving. IMO Vettel's driving skill and speed is still top class.

Take a look at qualifying. That isn't affected by being "in the pack" vs "in the front." IMO when Vettel doesn't have a frontrunning car his head drops, rather than him driving worse due to a lack of skill. After his first pole (and incidentally, his first victory too) in Bahrain, Vettel's results markedly improved and was never beaten by Webber (on a race by race basis) except for Webber specialty circuits Silverstone and Monaco.

In fact - odd as it may sound (I just realised this when I opened Wikipedia to check their race results) Webber has only beaten Vettel in race finishes 4 times all year - Malaysia, China, Monaco and Valencia.

The 4 races:
Malaysia - Vettel contact with Karthikeyan
China - Vettel straight-up outclassed
Monaco - Vettel straight-up outclassed
Valencia - alternator failure.

Bizarre, really, especially given that Vettel only re-overtook Webber in the standings post-Belgium. Absolutely bizarre.

On topic and on Piquet - IMO, on balance of the season, the Ferrari has been more competitive than the Lotus and the Sauber. The Lotus and Sauber have probably had higher "high points" than the Ferrari, but they have also had lower "low points."

He also beat him in Silverstone.