Who will Win Autosport Driver Of The Year 2012??

[Cylinder]

I don't know if you're trolling or really really have no basic understanding of Formula One. You must also believe that Damon Hill outperformed Ayrton Senna in the first two races of 1994...

After Silverstone, Webber had more wins and more points. Thats about 9 races, not two.

Thanks for playing though.

[mnmracer]

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I don't know if you're trolling or really really have no basic understanding of Formula One. You must also believe that Damon Hill outperformed Ayrton Senna in the first two races of 1994...

After Silverstone, Webber had more wins and more points. Thats about 9 races, not two.

Thanks for playing though.

Because of the very same reason Damon Hill had more points than Senna.
Not because Damon Hill performed better, but because Senna was unlucky.

The fact you fool yourself into believing that is true, is mindboggling.
The fact you are so narrow-minded that you must twist reality so you can keep believing what you do, is pathetic.

[GrizzleBoy]

For Vettel, he did exactly what was required of him, and delivered with incredible consistency.

Incredible consistency??

Were you not watching when his race craft alone cost him points numerous times this season?

Malaysia, Barcelona, Germany, Monza, Brazil, Abu Dhabi.

There are at least a handful of drivers that have shown real consistency this year where you couldn't have asked them to do any more or point to any real mistakes they made and imo its a slap in their faces to ignore them just because they didn't win the championship.

[Cylinder]

I don't know if you're trolling or really really have no basic understanding of Formula One. You must also believe that Damon Hill outperformed Ayrton Senna in the first two races of 1994...

After Silverstone, Webber had more wins and more points. Thats about 9 races, not two.

Thanks for playing though.

Because of the very same reason Damon Hill had more points than Senna.
Not because Damon Hill performed better, but because Senna was unlucky.

Unlucky to get outqualified? Lol. Do you remember the quali's where Vettel didnt even make it into Q3....on pace?

[mnmracer]

Unlucky to get outqualified? Lol. Do you remember the quali's where Vettel didnt even make it into Q3....on pace?

And how many points are earned on Saturday?
Vettel has outqualified Webber in every possible scenario in their time as team mates. FACT
Bridgestones, Pirelli's, with DRS, without DRS, with EBD, without EBD.

So if that suddenly changes, but Vettel still has the clear edge (8:3) in the race, you must have a sub-zero understanding of racing to claim that it was down to performance, and not to race set-up.

[GrizzleBoy]

Is that all you can do? Tell lies?
Where was this life and death battle in Australia, Malaysia, Bahrain, Spain, Canada, Europe, Germany or Hungary?

You don't want to hear that Vettel's season has not been as bad as you want it to be made out.
You have to resort to factual inaccuracies to make your point. You need a double standard to make Alonso look good.
Because no, we can't judge Lewis for losing three races to Jenson. We can't judge Fernando for being bettered in three races by Felipe. But the fact Mark got the better of Sebastian in three races is apparently reason to burn him to the ground.

Vettel has not been that good this year tbh.

Last year he was "flawless", a "genius" as Martin Brundle would say..

This year, he's had questionable collision/race incident galore compared to the other big names and Webber kept up with him quite well compared to last year (until he signed his contract).

In almost every aspect, you could say that there has been a driver who has done better than him.

Qualifying? Maybe in 2011 with the beastly RB7, but definitely not 2012, starting outside of the top ten in Monaco while Mark was on pole.

Race craft? Certainly not. He still shows issues overtaking. Doing so out of the track boundaries on numerous occasions, causing racing incidents on more than one occasion. Sometimes multiple times in the same race.

Winning when starting away from the front row? Nope.

He did what he needed to do with the equipment he was given, but where his overall racemanship (no it isn't a word) is concerned, its not really been fantastic. There are definitely other drivers who have been more impressive with their set of wheels.

Raikkonnen for instance, has been much more impressive imo, with the limiting factor being the overall just above average, but not good enough Lotus car.

Again more big talk, again NO substantiation.
No scenario in which you can say: see what Hamilton/Alonso did there? this is something Vettel could not have done.
All talk, no substance.
Why do you even bother with such empty phrases if you know they add absolutely nothing?

Wow, really?

No substantiation? So the facts mean nothing eh?

Sebastians race craft has hurt him more than any of the "top guys" in all round racing consistency this season.

Who has created the most crash based racing incidents out of Alonso, Raikkonnen, Hamilton, Vettel? Vettel.

Who has created the most rule breaking incidents out of Alonso, Raikkonnen, Hamilton, Vettel? Vettel. Speeding under yellows, overtaking outside the track on numerous occasions.

Who has compromised the most points/positions due to their own driving as opposed to overall team reliability this season out of the top four? Vettel.

Therefore, I can say he has not been the driver of the year imo. He won the WDC for sure, but not due to superior driving consistency compared the other guys mentioned who were much more reliable as can be substantiated, by the amount of non pit/garage induced mistakes they made.

Sorry if that hurts your feelings.

@ Cylinder below:

Don't forget how Webbers race winning performance suddenly disappeared after he signed his contract as Martin Brundle was quick to point out on many occasions

[Cylinder]

Unlucky to get outqualified? Lol. Do you remember the quali's where Vettel didnt even make it into Q3....on pace?

And how many points are earned on Saturday?
Vettel has outqualified Webber in every possible scenario in their time as team mates. FACT
Bridgestones, Pirelli's, with DRS, without DRS, with EBD, without EBD.

So if that suddenly changes, but Vettel still has the clear edge (8:3) in the race, you must have a sub-zero understanding of racing to claim that it was down to performance, and not to race set-up.

Ahh yes, this makes sense, Red Bull changed his setup for the race so much he wasn't able to make Q3.... and then when he was getting out-qualified and beaten by webber in the 1st half of the season, that was down to him being unlucky .....and then suddenly in the second half of the season he suddenly finds his amazing super seb form, which has nothing to do with a batch of Adrian Newey special updates and then he wins the world title in a car which is not the best car over the season.........yup suddenly it all makes sense now.......

[mnmracer]

For Vettel, he did exactly what was required of him, and delivered with incredible consistency.

Incredible consistency??

Were you not watching when his race craft alone cost him points numerous times this season?

Malaysia, Barcelona, Germany, Monza, Brazil, Abu Dhabi.

There are at least a handful of drivers that have shown real consistency this year where you couldn't have asked them to do any more or point to any real mistakes they made and imo its a slap in their faces to ignore them just because they didn't win the championship.

Considering this is the 'Alonso is god' topic, surely you can not have forgotten about Alonso's race craft in pushing Grosjean into Schumacher in Monaco? Or his race craft running into Räikkönen in Japan? Not to mention his amazing race craft cutting the Senna S' twice.

When is the last time Alonso had to do a much on-track overtaking to get through the field in Abu Dhabi and Brazil? He was so consistent that it took him 7 laps to ovetake Maldonado, despite being on fresher tires (and Massa being faster than them)? He was so consistent that he struggled to overtake Pic in Barcelona, which cost him the win.

In which similar scenario, has Alonso done things that Vettel couldn't?

[Cylinder]

@ Cylinder below:

Don't forget how Webbers race winning performance suddenly disappeared after he signed his contract as Martin Brundle was quick to point out on many occasions

Im not saying foul play, but it was Unbelievable.......as soon as he signed that deal.....every week he had a choice of the following

Gearbox failure
Kers Failure
Poor start

[Cylinder]

When is the last time Alonso had to do a much on-track overtaking to get through the field in Abu Dhabi and Brazil?

This is hilarious

Please list the drivers Vettel overtook on track in Abu Dhabi Please in a red bull geared and setup for in race overtaking.

Name them.......

[mnmracer]

Unlucky to get outqualified? Lol. Do you remember the quali's where Vettel didnt even make it into Q3....on pace?

And how many points are earned on Saturday?
Vettel has outqualified Webber in every possible scenario in their time as team mates. FACT
Bridgestones, Pirelli's, with DRS, without DRS, with EBD, without EBD.

So if that suddenly changes, but Vettel still has the clear edge (8:3) in the race, you must have a sub-zero understanding of racing to claim that it was down to performance, and not to race set-up.

Ahh yes, this makes sense, Red Bull changed his setup for the race so much he wasn't able to make Q3.... and then when he was getting out-qualified and beaten by webber in the 1st half of the season, that was down to him being unlucky .....and then suddenly in the second half of the season he suddenly finds his amazing super seb form, which has nothing to do with a batch of Adrian Newey special updates and then he wins the world title in a car which is not the best car over the season.........yup suddenly it all makes sense now.......

It's pathetic that all you can bring up is qualifying, and COMPLETELY IGNORE when the points are scored.
If it is as rediculous as you think it is, don't be such a pussy and explain why qualifying performance is more significant than race performance? Tell me then, or have the decency to acknowledge you don't know what you're talking about.

[mnmracer]

When is the last time Alonso had to do a much on-track overtaking to get through the field in Abu Dhabi and Brazil?

This is hilarious

Please list the drivers Vettel overtook on track in Abu Dhabi Please in a red bull geared and setup for in race overtaking.

Name them.......

You are being hilarious that for your big mouth, you are too afraid to say anything substantial.
There are numerous issues that you are too affraid to address. Too scared to answer. How about you start there, and then I might help you Google. I know, it's scary having to face facts, but we can't all live in a dream world.

[GrizzleBoy]

For Vettel, he did exactly what was required of him, and delivered with incredible consistency.

Incredible consistency??

Were you not watching when his race craft alone cost him points numerous times this season?

Malaysia, Barcelona, Germany, Monza, Brazil, Abu Dhabi.

There are at least a handful of drivers that have shown real consistency this year where you couldn't have asked them to do any more or point to any real mistakes they made and imo its a slap in their faces to ignore them just because they didn't win the championship.

Considering this is the 'Alonso is god' topic, surely you can not have forgotten about Alonso's race craft in pushing Grosjean into Schumacher in Monaco? Or his race craft running into Räikkönen in Japan? Not to mention his amazing race craft cutting the Senna S' twice.

When is the last time Alonso had to do a much on-track overtaking to get through the field in Abu Dhabi and Brazil? He was so consistent that it took him 7 laps to ovetake Maldonado, despite being on fresher tires (and Massa being faster than them)? He was so consistent that he struggled to overtake Pic in Barcelona, which cost him the win.

In which similar scenario, has Alonso done things that Vettel couldn't?

Why are you so excited and upset that I don't agree with Vettel being "incredibly consistent"?

I never said "Vettel was inconsistent and everyone else was perfect", nor did I say the only person more consistent was Alonso, I simply stated that his consistency was far from "incredible".

If Vettels consistency was "incredible" while driving markedly less consistently than other drivers in terms of total self created incidents then Raikkonen and Hamilton's consistency must have been god-like in comparison to the near faultless seasons they actually had in terms of personal consistency, race to race.

I'm not really interested in talking with you any further about this tbh. When you take a very credible and easily arguable, quantifiable and provable criticism of a driver as a personal insult to yourself and react in the way you are, its obvious there is no objectiveness.

Seb has not been "incredibly" consistent this year (when compared to other drivers who really have been impressively consistent), that's all I said. I'm not cursing your mother.

[Cylinder]

It's pathetic that all you can bring up is qualifying, and COMPLETELY IGNORE when the points are scored.
If it is as rediculous as you think it is, don't be such a pussy and explain why qualifying performance is more significant than race performance? Tell me then, or have the decency to acknowledge you don't know what you're talking about.

Race performance is more significant. after silverstone, Webber outscored and won more races than Vettel.

Aka, he was outperforming Vettel, he was out-qualifying Vettel regularly during that period too.



You gonna name all these Amazing drivers vettel was overtaking in abu dhabi? Go on, I need a laugh...

[mnmracer]

Incredible consistency??

Were you not watching when his race craft alone cost him points numerous times this season?

Malaysia, Barcelona, Germany, Monza, Brazil, Abu Dhabi.

There are at least a handful of drivers that have shown real consistency this year where you couldn't have asked them to do any more or point to any real mistakes they made and imo its a slap in their faces to ignore them just because they didn't win the championship.

Considering this is the 'Alonso is god' topic, surely you can not have forgotten about Alonso's race craft in pushing Grosjean into Schumacher in Monaco? Or his race craft running into Räikkönen in Japan? Not to mention his amazing race craft cutting the Senna S' twice.

When is the last time Alonso had to do a much on-track overtaking to get through the field in Abu Dhabi and Brazil? He was so consistent that it took him 7 laps to ovetake Maldonado, despite being on fresher tires (and Massa being faster than them)? He was so consistent that he struggled to overtake Pic in Barcelona, which cost him the win.

In which similar scenario, has Alonso done things that Vettel couldn't?

Why are you so excited and upset that I don't agree with Vettel being "incredibly consistent"?

I never said "Vettel was inconsistent and everyone else was perfect", nor did I say the only person more consistent was Alonso, I simply stated that his consistency was far from "incredible".

If Vettels consistency was "incredible" while driving markedly less consistently than other drivers in terms of total self created incidents then Raikkonen and Hamilton's consistency must have been god-like in comparison to the near faultless seasons they actually had in terms of personal consistency, race to race.

I'm not really interested in talking with you any further about this tbh. When you take a very credible and easily arguable, quantifiable and provable criticism of a driver as a personal insult to yourself and react in the way you are, its obvious there is no objectiveness.

Seb has not been "incredibly" consistent this year (when compared to other drivers who really have been impressively consistent), that's all I said. I'm not cursing your mother.

We are talking about Alonso here.
The whole world is to believe that Alonso was an amazing driver and you choose to attack Vettel for consistency, and leave all the Alonso worshippers be.

What I find insulting is the utter disrespect for facts and the rampant double standards on here. That is my issue; that it is once again targetted at Vettel, is just an annoyance.