Private / Winter Testing

[fritticaldi]

After reading the article where Luca di Montezemolo says he is fedup with current F1 rules which restrict private testing, I felt compelled to start a topic about this. I know this was incorporated to save money.
Not being able to test on their private Fiorano track is THE segment that hurts Ferrari the most. I would like to know what the forum thinks about this situation. F1 is the only sport in the world where they don't practice. Young drivers are limited to a Friay free practice where they do approx. 20 laps and the one-off annual Young drivers test session. I've been following F1 since the late seventies and private testing was always present. The British teams tested at Silverstone whenever they wanted. In January and February Paul Ricard was used. Estoril, Jerez, Barcelona...Please bring private Testing back.

[Lycoming]

How much do you think such a testing program costs?

That said, I think they could allow more testing, but unless they reform their test teams (which would cost a small fortune), well, their race team is already really stretched quite thin during the normal season.

[fritticaldi]

I don't know the cost of private testing but surely must be an astronomical figure. In the days when Schumacher and Ferrari dominated, the test team at Fiorano wth Luca Badoer ran practically on a daily basis. I realise that Private testing could only be the luxury of the rich teams like Red Bull, Ferrari, McLaren and Mercedes. Occasionally the midfield teams could take part as well where new solutions and data could be collected.

[Sombrero]

I remember one figure : 1000 US$ the kilometer or so just before the ban. Quite expensive uh ?

[Jersey Tom]

Track rental cost, travel, fuel, tires, auxiliary safety crew. Lot of cost in track rental, international travel isn't cheap either. Ferrari being able to scratch those two off the list is a huge advantage in open testing.

[ParanoiD]

How about making a test track a mandatory facility for F1 Teams?

Just like wind tunnel, new teams rented them at first, and later built their own. And have a Testing Department consist of crew special for track testing along with the safety crew etc.

Whats the price comparison of building wind tunnel and test track?

[Jersey Tom]

How about making a test track a mandatory facility for F1 Teams?

Just like wind tunnel, new teams rented them at first, and later built their own. And have a Testing Department consist of crew special for track testing along with the safety crew etc.

Whats the price comparison of building wind tunnel and test track?

Think about ROI. You can run a wind tunnel in controlled conditions pretty well constantly, maybe only with techs? Track testing.. conditions change all day, there are months days or weeks where you can't. Need a driver, engineers, mechanics, etc.

[FW17]

Track rental cost, travel, fuel, tires, auxiliary safety crew. Lot of cost in track rental, international travel isn't cheap either. Ferrari being able to scratch those two off the list is a huge advantage in open testing.

Teams need not travel all the way to spain or south france to test, they should be able to run on any track in the UK

Mclaren have their own test track which they are not using.

However considering the advantage Ferrari have with a test track in their back yard, testing days during the season should be limited to 10 or 12 days

Anyway the cost of track rental is not astronomical anyway

[Hail22]

How about making a test track a mandatory facility for F1 Teams?

Just like wind tunnel, new teams rented them at first, and later built their own. And have a Testing Department consist of crew special for track testing along with the safety crew etc.

Whats the price comparison of building wind tunnel and test track?

That and there already is a track with high control from the FoM (Magny Cours to be precise) plus its a central location...UK, Italy, Spain, Germany etc etc

[george1981]

Testing has been largely replaced with simulators, how much do simulators cost and how comparable are the results from a simulator to track testing?
Some teams were priced out of testing, but I think they're also priced out of simulators so I don't see the big cost saving or field levelling that the test ban was meant to do.
If the FIA banned testing and simulators then all teams would only have the pre season testing and GP weekends to get their set ups right. That might level the field.

[Jersey Tom]

If the FIA banned testing and simulators then all teams would only have the pre season testing and GP weekends to get their set ups right. That might level the field.

That would be removing the engineering aspect of F1, might as well ban CAD and force design engineers to use drafting boards.

So long as some teams have more money than others, you're inherently going to have a broad field. Ban or restrict one thing, the money gets spent somewhere else.

[Just_a_fan]

How much do you think such a testing program costs?

I remember the Williams team saying that the test team cost more to run than the race team although on a $/km basis the race team was more expensive.

[godlameroso]

I for one like the fact that F1 teams are spending so much time and effort into simulations, particularly because eventually all that technology trickles down to us in the form of consumer level simulations. Taking those simulations and packaging them as games could certainly offset some of the cost that goes into developing them. In any case you will never be able to simulate on track running, there are simply far to many variables to recreate. I think they should allow two more weeks of testing throughout the year, but it would have to be group tests.

Also just to speculate, what would stop a team from conducting a secret private test? It's not as if they couldn't, I mean are the teams being policed to the extent that nothing they do can be shielded from view?

[Jersey Tom]

I for one like the fact that F1 teams are spending so much time and effort into simulations, particularly because eventually all that technology trickles down to us in the form of consumer level simulations.

Don't think I agree with that statement. For one, anything the teams develop as far as tools or knowledge is going to be tightly wrapped up intellectual property. Beyond that, the R&D in consumer level simulations and methods I'd say far outweighs anything an individual race team is doing. Race teams are just very good at tailoring their specific needs.

Certain aspects of consumer market simulation tools blow away race team stuff as far as fidelity. Furthermore, some things that are critical in consumer predictive tools aren't areas of interest in racing, and vice versa.

[wesley123]

After reading the article where Luca di Montezemolo says he is fedup with current F1 rules which restrict private testing,

He says this like in every interview or press message he gives, probably named a third car too.

I felt compelled to start a topic about this. I know this was incorporated to save money.

It didnt save any money, it just gave less wealthier teams the opportunity to more closely compete.

Not being able to test on their private Fiorano track is THE segment that hurts Ferrari the most.

Bogus, if that still hurts Ferrari the most then they should fix their management team, since they are obviously unable to cope with any change.

I would like to know what the forum thinks about this situation. F1 is the only sport in the world where they don't practice. Young drivers are limited to a Friay free practice where they do approx. 20 laps and the one-off annual Young drivers test session. I've been following F1 since the late seventies and private testing was always present. The British teams tested at Silverstone whenever they wanted. In January and February Paul Ricard was used. Estoril, Jerez, Barcelona...Please bring private Testing back.

I would love to see it back to, but it is not gonna happen since it's money this, money that.