Jackie Stewart imparting some wisdom.

[WhiteBlue]

It sounds like the Stewart/Clarke school of driving is best represented by Button in todays drivers. But I'm not convinced that Hamilton's and Schumacher's style isn't equally qualified as world class. Sir Jacky said that all the best drivers have the smooth style. I would dispute that with Lewis and Michael in mind. Historically I would also like to add Gilles Villeneuve and Bernd Rosemeyer.

[raymondu999]

It sounds like the Stewart/Clarke school of driving is best represented by Button in todays drivers.

I would say that "It sounds like" isn't even required in your sentence there

Interestingly, Button is rarely his example of choice. If you were to listen to the audio I uploaded, he mentions Vettel and Alonso instead. Here is another quote I got off Autosport and posted in this thread a while back, where he also uses Vettel and Alonso as the prime examples:

Maurice - How much can you tell that's happening when you're just looking at the pictures from the on-board cameras?
Sir JYS - Look at the driver's hands on the steering wheel. Some of them are all over the place; everything's an adventure. What you don't need is a challenge; what you really want is an invitation. The Matra MS80 I drove to win the championship in 1969 was an invitation. I gave it time to do everything, and it let me do things I would not have been able to do had I been trying to keep up with a difficult animal. You want to lead a placid animal into a corner. If I overdid it under braking and it became too busy, suddenly I was trying to consume this business just to get the apex. But if everything is calm, on the way in I'd be thinking of the exit – not the apex.

It's sometimes difficult to make a young driver understand this, because he thinks all he's got to do is drive it. When you get into F1, it's a whole new package. Suddenly there's not as much space between the exit of one corner and the entry to the next. You're up through the box and you're working the steering wheel and the buttons. You get to the next corner and you're not prepared. It's about being able to find time and create very subtle improvements that suddenly make the laptimes more consistent.

Most of the current F1 drivers turn in far too fast; you can see it on TV. Vettel turns in microseconds slower, and so does Alonso. It's only microseconds, but that little bit is taking all of the tensions within the car. It's very simple, but there are no coaches to tell them that.

But I'm not convinced that Hamilton's and Schumacher's style isn't equally qualified as world class.

I think there perhaps is a bit of a generation gap here. I think given that the cars today are generally overall grippier, what's considered "smooth" has changed. The Hamilton/Schumacher style could be aggressive for the old machinery, but in fact, still relatively smooth when considering the machinery.

Historically I would also like to add Gilles Villeneuve and Bernd Rosemeyer.

Was Gilles an aggressive driver? I've never seen an onboard of him in my whole life - honest question. But I seem to read that most of his exploits and heavenly performances have come from audacious exercises of tyre saving and defensive driving, defending against cars that were seconds quicker.

[WhiteBlue]

Was Gilles an aggressive driver? I've never seen an onboard of him in my whole life - honest question. But I seem to read that most of his exploits and heavenly performances have come from audacious exercises of tyre saving and defensive driving, defending against cars that were seconds quicker.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zxF87uSkUI[/youtube]
Villeneuve riding the Red turbo beast sideways!

[WhiteBlue]

Was Gilles an aggressive driver? I've never seen an onboard of him in my whole life - honest question. But I seem to read that most of his exploits and heavenly performances have come from audacious exercises of tyre saving and defensive driving, defending against cars that were seconds quicker.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zxF87uSkUI[/youtube]
Villeneuve riding the Red turbo beast sideways!

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wRwFV9hGXtY[/youtube]

Watch Rosemeyer take a corner at his unique sideway style at 2:05. The 16 cylinder Autounion cars were the first racing cars with mid engine chassis and were famous for massive oversteering due to their huge engine weight and skinny tires. The drivers usually tried to avoid having the back end fish tail but Rosemeyer developed a trade mark style by deliberately inducing the slide and catching it early with a quick correction.

[lebesset]

quite agree with jackie that all world class drivers have to be able to drive in that super smooth style ; but it's not enough in my view ...they need to be able to adapt to whatever is required to extract the maximum from the car , whatever that is

eg button is the finest example of super smooth at the moment , but cannot adapt if a more aggressive style is required , so not world class in my book [ and I am a big fan ]

so who is world class at the moment ? nobody in my view , but time will tell , it's the body of work that will determine in hindsight ;
likely contenders are easy to spot , hamilton likely [ looking forward to seeing what he can squeeze out of a mercedes ] , alonso possibly as well as vettel

drivers have to be able to weather the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune , the best drivers are strong mentally , and that doesn't really come until their mid twenties , so we can forgive vettel his hissy fits for the moment but alonso should know better at his age

[ringo]

I don't see Alonso as a smooth driver however. I'm not sure if JS is just referring to late turn in more so than Smooth driving.
To me a world class F1 driver will drive anything, anywhere, anytime, anyhow at the highest level.
No point being smooth if it's not getting the result; which is the fastest lap time for the moment, be that moment with full tanks, empty tanks, new tyres, cold tyres, worn tyres, etc.

[raymondu999]

I don't see Alonso as a smooth driver however. I'm not sure if JS is just referring to late turn in more so than Smooth driving.

He's not - in fact, he's saying Alonso turns in early.

[Cam]

I don't see Alonso as a smooth driver however. I'm not sure if JS is just referring to late turn in more so than Smooth driving.

He's not - in fact, he's saying Alonso turns in early.

Very rarley do I question you Ray - however it stated:

Most of the current F1 drivers turn in far too fast; you can see it on TV. Vettel turns in microseconds slower, and so does Alonso. It's only microseconds, but that little bit is taking all of the tensions within the car.

so I'm confused. Have I read that quote from JS wrong?

[raymondu999]

I personally read it as, "Vettel/Alonso turn in slower" as in they begin to move the steering wheel sooner, because if you turn in slower but at the same place, looking at the geometry of the line you're on, you'd run wide on exit.

Sort of like, "turn in slower, more gradually. Don't leave it as last of the late turners (I paraphrased a bit here) and be forced to have to turn in aggressively."

No?

[Cam]

Well yes now I see. Guess it can be read two ways as I read that as slower meaning later.

[blaze123]

Hi guys (first post here)

According to Martin Brundle Alonso doesn't seem to have a very smooth driving style...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TOhgI1hQA68

Doesn't this seem to be at odds with what JS is saying in regards to Alonso?

[raymondu999]

Well yes now I see. Guess it can be read two ways as I read that as slower meaning later.

Now that I think back - I remember Jackie saying somewhere that Alonso and Vettel turn in earlier - either on a video, or an audio recording, or on an interview - so I took "earlier" from there and "slower" from here - and I added both up together. Will look for it and post when I find it again.

Hi guys (first post here)

According to Martin Brundle Alonso doesn't seem to have a very smooth driving style...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TOhgI1hQA68

Doesn't this seem to be at odds with what JS is saying in regards to Alonso?

Both are correct, though both contradict each other

I did a long post on it in this thread: http://www.f1technical.net/forum/viewto ... f=1&t=8843
For your viewing convenience, here's the specific post:

I don't think the Renault steering aggressiveness is a good barometer to judge the current Alonso. Alonso certainly is one of the more interesting case studies in adaptability. If you look at his onboards from 2003, he's seemingly changed every year.

Taking a look at his onboards year on year, let's pay attention to the steering:

His steering entries at Renault through 2003-2006 were certainly massively aggressive: (this is from 05)
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0zWxHS6PMuk[/youtube]

But with the McLaren on Bridgestones, it was VERY dfferent:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ES3uRsBiDOk[/youtube]

Then we had the 08 Renault on Bridgestones (remember they were on Michelin rubber in 03-06). In comparison to his first Renault stint, his two Renault comeback years were comparatively dainty.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OmcPasRvg88[/youtube]

2009 Renault (different aero and slicks now)
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2APYDPjNgYg[/youtube]

2010 Ferrari on the new understeery Bridgestone slicks - there's certainly an added "busy"ness to his steering movements as he takes multiple stabs into corners.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aWYPpxIgXpI[/youtube]

2011 Ferrari on the first Pirelli year. He reverses his 2010 style as his entry sweeps are a lot calmer, but when he unwinds the steering, he takes multiple stabs.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1bXElpqhI0I[/youtube]

2012 Ferrari this year. Things are a lot calmer with the wheel, a lot more "Jenson Button" like in the entry/exit sweeps.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xGyMZZKLRks[/youtube]

My point is - while Alonso was certainly aggressive on the wheel with his Renault, I'm not sure that it may necessarily be the case with his current year.

[JimClarkFan]

I don't see Alonso as a smooth driver however. I'm not sure if JS is just referring to late turn in more so than Smooth driving.
To me a world class F1 driver will drive anything, anywhere, anytime, anyhow at the highest level.
No point being smooth if it's not getting the result; which is the fastest lap time for the moment, be that moment with full tanks, empty tanks, new tyres, cold tyres, worn tyres, etc.

Don't think anything more needs to be said really.

And there are only two drivers I can think of that have proven that they can drive cars that are bad fast whatever the circumstance.