D1GP (Drifting)

[Saribro]

In drifting, the throttle is your second steering instrument, and probably the most important part to keep your car in control.

[DaveKillens]

Taleed, it has to do with the science of tires and how much they grip, and slip angles. In the traditional road tire, as the slip angle increases, the grip drops off slowly. You can get the back end well out, and gather it back up because even at those high slip angles, there's some grip. But racing tires act differently. Because they have to have so much grip, they are strong only up to a certain slip angle. Then if you get past that point, where the back end does start to come around, there's practically no grip. We have seen the best drivers in the world spin their cars when they get past that point.
So my point is that different types of tires have different grip levels at different slip angles. You really can't "drift" a Formula One car because it is too easy to spin out. But a rally car or a drifter can go sideways very well, thank you. And one huge reason why is because at high slip angles there is still enough grip between the tire and road surface.

[RacingManiac]

The problem in drifting though is that it is not objective. You look at a D1 competition and if both guys are not making any mistake, there are no real differentiation between the "good" and the "better" because to me(perhaps the untrained eyes), they are both doing interesting(maybe even spectacular) sideway driving around a track. But in normal racing, at the end of the day there is a clock that tells you whether driver A is better or worse than driver B. While there are no doubt that drifting require tremandous amount of skill, it is a lot less controlled and require less discipline in my mind compare to racing. Doing one spectacular banzai sideway drift lap is probably not as demending as trying to drive a car at its limit for a race distance, when you are at the peak of you and the vehicle's performance for the duration of the race, lap after lap.

Now look at dirt track racing, that looks like something interesting with both racing and drifting mixed.....

[Tom]

I've been doing my autotesting and a rally day so I'm disovering how easy it is to get sideways. I've only had one spin (brake after a crest, the car swopped ends so fast I didn't have time to think or opposite lock at all) and I found that sideways control is easy if you are intending to do it, its when it takes you completely by surprise that you get fuc*ed. When these guys start left foot braking, heel-toeing (I haven't mastered this yet) and shifting gear, all while going sideways and fully controlled, then I will give them some respect, until then they'll always be an advanced boy racer.

[pRo]

You look at a D1 competition and if both guys are not making any mistake, there are no real differentiation between the "good" and the "better" because to me(perhaps the untrained eyes), they are both doing interesting(maybe even spectacular) sideway driving around a track. But in normal racing, at the end of the day there is a clock that tells you whether driver A is better or worse than driver B.

There are instruments to measure the drift as well.

At least the drift angle, speed and yes, times too are being used. I'm not really familiar with the latest possible changes, but I can only assume it's probably more than less, if not still the same.

When these guys start left foot braking, heel-toeing and shifting gear, all while going sideways and fully controlled, then I will give them some respect

Just curious, do you think it's possible to change gear during a drift? Assuming normal gearbox with clutch, which most of them have.

They are already doing the rest.

[Tom]

I would thing that in a really long drift you would have to change gear, at least at the end when your wheels suddenly regain grip.

[taleed]

By Principessa:
Valentino Rossi, seven times World Champion Moto GP, will drive in the rally of New-Zealand from November 17th till November 19th.
The Italian will drive a Subaru Impreza and will pay for everything himself. It's the second time that Rossi will drive in a rally and he also drove F1 for Ferrari during a test in January.

Some comments in this topic said that F1 drivers are racers because they can't drift and vice versa. Those comments appear to be false as to my supporting evidence.

*suggestions...

[Tom]

I've no doubt circuit racers can drift, not aswell as rally drivers I reakon, but I doubt many rally drivers can apex every corner in Suzuka, let alone for 60 odd laps.

[pRo]

Some comments in this topic said that F1 drivers are racers because they can't drift and vice versa. Those comments appear to be false as to my supporting evidence.

I believe Rossi isn't a F1 driver and rallying doesn't equal drifting.

You would be very, VERY, slow, if you drifted in rally. That's just not something you'll do, if you want to be fast. Surely the car isn't driven like on track, but it's nowhere near drifting either.

Please, please, please, pretty please with cherry and sugar on top. Sliding the car a bit is as close to drifting as flooring the throttle is to racing. There's a lot more into it.

I've no doubt circuit racers can drift, not aswell as rally drivers I reakon, but I doubt many rally drivers can apex every corner in Suzuka, let alone for 60 odd laps.

We just have to wait and see when the rally drivers decide to have a day of fun and drive around Suzuka to see.


While we're waiting for that, enjoy the Race of Champions, should be in early December. They invite the best circuit and rally drivers to compete against each other with several different cars, including tracktoys and WRC cars. Last year Loeb won it, the year before that Kovalainen won it. What's interesting is that often circuit and rally drivers are quite even, no matter what the car is.

Here's some info about it, for those who never heard of it (can there be any?):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_of_Champions


More on that matter, I'm not sure if it's just the finns, but former F1 drivers seem to like to participate on some rallying every now and then. Mika Hakkinen does it, Mika Salo does it, JJ Lehto does, even Keke Rosberg still does it. But in the end they are more or less just racing against each other, without being even close to the fastest guys. Surely they could be faster, if they just trained more, but I'm still not convinced that a circuit driver could be good in letting the car loose, if he's been avoiding that for his life and got good at it.

[RacingManiac]

Surely they could be faster, if they just trained more, but I'm still not convinced that a circuit driver could be good in letting the car loose, if he's been avoiding that for his life and got good at it.

I think its a commitment thing, its not easy to be on blind road driving at 80-90% of the limit, which is what makes a rally driver good, and it also is not easy to be on 100% on a known track, apexing corners in a GP distance. I think the former puts the f1/circuit driver at a bigger disadvantage compare to a WRC driver on a circuit though....a little thing called self-preservation.....

[taleed]

That's really cool. I never knew Mika Hakkinen, Mika Salo, JJ Lehto, and Keke Rosberg rally.

So back to topic:
(It is hard to define the sport of drifting even though a couple attempts have been made to do so).

Could you say drifting is a new type of sport in it's own category of both racing and show?

[taleed]

D1GP:
D1 is Drifting #1 and GP (Grand Prix). ...Here is another question then. The majority of you think that drifting is a form of entertainment. Then why would they have a race called D1GP? Isn't grand prix used only for racing series?

[Saribro]

Because it sounds cooler?

[Ciro Pabón]

Could you say drifting is a new type of sport in it's own category of both racing and show?

I'd say drifting is a racing sport the same way figure skating is a sport, compared to skating races. Any sport with judges is... well, funny.

At rallies, drifting is a technique, not a goal. That is the reason why they seem to me to go flat through the corner (you do not need to modulate the throttle). Like Shakira says: "hips don't lie".

However, Taleed, drift to your heart's content, nothing's wrong about it with me.

[Tom]

The best rally drivers hardly drift at all. Watch Loeb and, to a lesser extent, Gronholm when they drive. They hardly put any input into the steering and therefore don't have much opposite lock to contend with, they keep drifting to a minimum because it is a slower way round the corner. Of course on events like Australia this weekend its unavoidable, the gravel is as close to ball bearings as is possible to drive on.