Mercedes AMG F1 W04 (pre-launch speculation)

[yener]

i'm a little bit worried about the new gearbox. It's going to be smaller and more complex one.

Where are the facts of that being the case? ****WAIT AND SEE

Last year the gearbox failed more then once at both teams using the Mercedes GB.

What is the other team using the merc gearbox? *****McLAREN

And then their is the interlinked suspension which connects front and rear. Aldo is partly responsible for that one, so the argument Aldo will fix that is not a good one in my eyes.

Then someone else will fix it. *****3years in a row same problem

If they don't mess up the windtunnel calibration and all the fetched data will get correctly on the car we will see a championship contender next year. They have everything at house right now.

Just like last year, and the year before. They wont be championship contenders next year, and anyone in or outside of the team who puts that as a goal should come back to earth. A championship contender is not gonna happen. ****they can hamilton brings an extra 0,4 sec a lap

The 60% scale windtunnel will give them a great advantage

Nope, since pretty much every other team has a similar scale, so rather a deficit removed than an advantage. ***compared with the wo3 which wasnt bad they have an advantage of their own cars!

and they will be able to see some especially around the rear. So we will see an improved difuser.

Why would that have a better effect on the rear than the front? **** Because the advantage of the coanda and BED wasnt visible on the 40% tunnel.

So the w04 is going to be all different at the rear.

Only rumors *** no rumours, thats a fact

And believe me or not if the FIA allows the bending nosecoine and Ross Brawn isn't complaining it just means he is going to copy that and bend the sh!t out of the w04.

No reason to think why this team would be able to flex their stuff an equal amount (or more) as red bull.

Last year nobody used a flex nose coine like RBR. This year MGP will

[mclaren_mircea]

@ yener

Why do you think that W04 will have a flex nose? The tests will be much thighter. You think only because they will copy RB8?

[wesley123]

Last year nobody used a flex nose coine like RBR. This year MGP will

How are you so sure?

[_Orfeu_]

Wesley123

how are you so sure that Mercedes will fight for no title in 2013?
you're an engineer?
you predict the future?

[wesley123]

Wesley123

how are you so sure that Mercedes will fight for no title in 2013?
you're an engineer?
you predict the future?

Ehhm nope, but it takes a bit of common sense

1. They achieved very little the past few years and have always felt back. Then a world title out of a sudden is a bit of a large goal to aim for isnt it?
2. They start from scratch, from pretty much zero. Where everyone else has a solid base to build on. They are pretty much on a disadvantage here.

It just takes common sense to see that the chance of them fighting for the championship next year is pretty much zero. Unless Ferrari, Lotus, Red Bull and McLaren screw up. Oh and not to take out Sauber or Force India out of it. So unless those 4 teams, who where ahead of them last year screw up they are 4th fastest at best.

No I cannot see in the future, but a bit of a realistic view tells me that it is much more realistic to aim for a 4th place inb the final standings than to aim for a WDC, because the likelyhood of that going to happen is pretty much 0.

[Gridlock]

Anyone up for a bit of CSI 'zoom and enhance'ing?

http://willthef1journo.files.wordpress. ... roup-2.jpg

[yener]

@wesley

It is really simple. Ross Brawn didn't complain about the flexing nose. As far as i know, nobody did complain about the RBR. It gives the RBR a good advantage in lap times.

Not complaining is also adapting it to your own car. The Fia cant prove rain in monsoon and nobody is complaining so why dont flex the rear wing? Or the Bargeboards? T splitter could be flexing as well. Also the FW elements you can do a lot of tricks.

See this

[wesley123]

@wesley

It is really simple. Ross Brawn didn't complain about the flexing nose. As far as i know, nobody did complain about the RBR.

Nobody did complain because the FIA would not come up with working tests anyway to exclude these flexi noses, as proven twice before.

It gives the RBR a good advantage in lap times.

I find conclusions like these always fun to read when no one really knows what is the goal of these 'rubber noses'. Only a few suggestions have been made, for example flex to reduce drag, or flex to increase df by bringing the front wing closer to the ground as well as this flex being some sort of J-damper, yet no one really knows it's goal, it is only assumed that it does this or that, and now you are sure it brings a large lap time advantage.

Not complaining is also adapting it to your own car.

Nope it is not.

The Fia cant prove rain in monsoon and nobody is complaining so why dont flex the rear wing?

Which is already done for a long time now, one can asume already since 2002(or possibly before). Why? Well why else would the Rear wing fail on the Jaguar of Irvine in France. Or both Minardi's in Spain that year. or iic Ralph Firmans crash in Hungary 2003. Or when Ralf Schumachers whole rear wing detached when colliding with his team mate in the USA Grand Prix.

Or the Bargeboards?

Who says they arent already?

T splitter could be flexing as well.

It was in 2010 after which the FIA imposed new rules, by outlawing current floor designs, now the floor pieces have to be 100cm long iic.

Also the FW elements you can do a lot of tricks.

Indeed

See this
http://www.gaiaconscience.com/img/trucorb2.gif

I have seen that image at least 50 times by now. Great that you show it but it adds nothing to the discussion

[mep]

I have to agree with wesley123, Mercedes is in a bad position to build on last yeas car which is required because the rules did not change. The other teams are ahead in a couple of fields. Mercedes can catch up by simply copying them but a winning car is not expected.

Also, is it really required to come up with flexing parts in every topic?
A flexing nose sounds ridiculous taking into account that it needs to pass some quite challenging crash tests. The nose is probably the worst part to build in some flex.

[PlatinumZealot]

Diasagree. It's not about catching up its about understanding the solutions and designing a your car as fast a possible. You don't design your car to catch up you design it to win funds and time permitting.

Merced will be right up there with the bulls come Australia. Mark my words.

[Morteza]

Diasagree. It's not about catching up its about understanding the solutions and designing a your car as fast a possible. You don't design your car to catch up you design it to win funds and time permitting.

Merced will be right up there with the bulls come Australia. Mark my words.

That is a very bold statement. It is too much to expect from Brackley guys. Even if they can do it, keeping up with the development pace of top teams is another matter.

[wesley123]

I have to agree with wesley123, Mercedes is in a bad position to build on last yeas car which is required because the rules did not change. The other teams are ahead in a couple of fields. Mercedes can catch up by simply copying them but a winning car is not expected.

And with copying another car you are behind anyways since the car you have copied has evolved over the winter

Diasagree. It's not about catching up its about understanding the solutions

Which Mercedes so far do not.

and designing a your car as fast a possible. You don't design your car to catch up you design it to win funds and time permitting.

And atm copying another car seems the most easy way to go.

Merced will be right up there with the bulls come Australia. Mark my words.

We are also still waiting for Toro Rosso to be 4th fastest

[_Orfeu_]

huuu

i see some people who knows about the future

and the ironic said with toro rosso like examplo is so poor

mercedes will be shut up this mercedes haters

this is because lewis leaved mclaren?

funny

[wesley123]

this is because lewis leaved mclaren?

No this is because of the following;
2010; they were bought by Mercedes, and with Rosberg and Schumacher they were so promising. They showed nothing and they were behind most of the year. Also they didnt understand the tires fully.

2011; After a sudden outburst on the use of exhausts gasses brawn stated they 'didnt expected the usage of it in such a way'. Also they, again, didnt understand the tires. It took them ages, really ages, to get a crappy version of the EBD up and running. Also their car had a crappy radiator layout and their car ran quite hot most of the time, requiring to place cooling holes everywhere. They started the year decent but felt back a lot.

2012; They started the year with a pretty good car, yet felt back. They couldnt keep up with the development pace and felt back really quickly. Also they, again, didnt understood the tires and again didnt anticipate exhaust use. It again took them ages to get an coanda exhaust running, by that time the season, once again, was lost. And it even is presumed that once again, they didnt fully understand the exhausts. Also their DDRS had more down than upsides.

I could go further back in time if you want. Also note my use of the word 'again' which indicates that they keep making the same mistakes, after 3 seasons of crap they have changed nothing.

And no, it is not 'because Lewis left McLaren', it is because the team is crap.

I wish them all the best but I'd doubt anything good will happen next year, a good goal would be to aim for 5th and keep there, if they gain places, great, but they shouldnt fall back anymore.

[beelsebob]

this is because lewis leaved mclaren?

No this is because of the following;
2010; they were bought by Mercedes, and with Rosberg and Schumacher they were so promising. They showed nothing and they were behind most of the year. Also they didnt understand the tires fully.

2011; After a sudden outburst on the use of exhausts gasses brawn stated they 'didnt expected the usage of it in such a way'. Also they, again, didnt understand the tires. It took them ages, really ages, to get a crappy version of the EBD up and running. Also their car had a crappy radiator layout and their car ran quite hot most of the time, requiring to place cooling holes everywhere. They started the year decent but felt back a lot.

2012; They started the year with a pretty good car, yet felt back. They couldnt keep up with the development pace and felt back really quickly. Also they, again, didnt understood the tires and again didnt anticipate exhaust use. It again took them ages to get an coanda exhaust running, by that time the season, once again, was lost. And it even is presumed that once again, they didnt fully understand the exhausts. Also their DDRS had more down than upsides.

I could go further back in time if you want. Also note my use of the word 'again' which indicates that they keep making the same mistakes, after 3 seasons of crap they have changed nothing.

And no, it is not 'because Lewis left McLaren', it is because the team is crap.

I wish them all the best but I'd doubt anything good will happen next year, a good goal would be to aim for 5th and keep there, if they gain places, great, but they shouldnt fall back anymore.

So what you're saying is...
2010: no where
2011: close to the front, but development couldn't keep up
2012: at the front, but development couldn't keep up.

That sounds like year on year incremental improvement to me, which is exactly what I'd expect to see from a professionally run team working on a very hard problem. I honestly don't get why people spend so much time laying into this one team.

Aside... why isn't this is in the team thread?