McLaren MP4-28 Mercedes

[wesley123]

It is also almost the same design philosophy as Lotus Fw...

Yeah it's not even close to the Lotus frontwing.

The McLAren front wing isnt comparable to anything. The flaps they run on the front wing are completely different. The fronmt wing they are using looks old compared to the others, their previous version looks old too.

imo they are just behind on the front wing design.

[Huntresa]

It is also almost the same design philosophy as Lotus Fw...

Yeah it's not even close to the Lotus frontwing.

The McLAren front wing isnt comparable to anything. The flaps they run on the front wing are completely different. The fronmt wing they are using looks old compared to the others, their previous version looks old too.

imo they are just behind on the front wing design.

When i say they run the same philospohy i mean the basics of the wing, which is that they run 1 cascade and then 1 large winglet/bargeboard next to it instead of another cascade, and 2 to 3 big planes, which the smaller or 65% of them are adjustable and that the bottom of the wing is straight then curls up at the endplate.

I klnow they dont run the same endplates cause Mclaren just kept their old endplates when they moved to this wing but as i said the basics of the wing is the same idea or philisophy w/e you wanna call it.

And this is in comparison to the teams that has gone with 5-7 plane wings like Ferrari, Merc, Red Bull and Williams

Lotus and Mclaren are the only teams to run this single cascade and then a very large winglet/bargeboard next to it instead of another cascade.

[Trocola]

the race pace seems a bit better the qualifying,yet can see the car still tend to understeer.

Could that be because the new front wing? I know it is not a technical view, but the new one seems a basic design. Last year front wing looked like it was more developed and complex.

They are using the same FW as introduced late last year... And it has the same cascade and endplates as the wing before it just that they changed the bottom of it and the main planes.

It is also almost the same design philosophy as Lotus Fw and i think you wouldnt say their wing is so basic cause they won today

I think it is not the same FW from last year (US GP and next races). If you look at this image (http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/5549/imageuwuj.jpg) you can see that the main plane is quite different and more elaborated.
This year FW is very similar to the Ferrari one on the main plane (imho, very simple) and like the lotus one on the rest

Could they use again the snowplough? With that on the car, they had a very strong front end

[Raptor22]

SO I guess if I called the MP4/28 bloated, underdeveloped and slow I would solicit the same response as it did pages ago?

[wesley123]

Yeah it's not even close to the Lotus frontwing.

The McLAren front wing isnt comparable to anything. The flaps they run on the front wing are completely different. The fronmt wing they are using looks old compared to the others, their previous version looks old too.

imo they are just behind on the front wing design.

When i say they run the same philospohy i mean the basics of the wing, which is that they run 1 cascade and then 1 large winglet/bargeboard next to it instead of another cascade, and 2 to 3 big planes, which the smaller or 65% of them are adjustable and that the bottom of the wing is straight then curls up at the endplate.

I klnow they dont run the same endplates cause Mclaren just kept their old endplates when they moved to this wing but as i said the basics of the wing is the same idea or philisophy w/e you wanna call it.

And this is in comparison to the teams that has gone with 5-7 plane wings like Ferrari, Merc, Red Bull and Williams

Lotus and Mclaren are the only teams to run this single cascade and then a very large winglet/bargeboard next to it instead of another cascade.

The only similarity is that they run 1 cascade winglet and next to that a vertical vane. That is really the only similarity and even with that there are huge differences.

Also this end plate you named which curves up into the wing, it is done by EVERY team, and McLaren was the last of them, by far.

There is absolutely no "same philosophy" going on to anyone with McLarens front wing. The McLaren front wing is very, very old compared to others.

The McLaren front wing is the only one not to use a diffuser like section on the inside of the front wing. Also it is the only one not to run a single flap setup. With that it is also the only one not to fully utilise the wingtip vortices. And also it is the only one not to feature slots in the wing profiles.

If we went back to 2010 then it would look new, but the design of McLarens front wing is just old and imo way behind.

[Huntresa]

But if we say its old etc etc how come Mclaren switched to this design during 2012 and kept it for 2013 with a few changes ? I mean its not Mclaren are dumb or anything, so there has to be a reason.

[oT v1]

But if we say its old etc etc how come Mclaren switched to this design during 2012 and kept it for 2013 with a few changes ? I mean its not Mclaren are dumb or anything, so there has to be a reason.

And maybe it would be better to get through the problems of switching to pull rod front this year before the new formula......although with the speed of last year's car they could have stuck with it and been very (i guess they would be) competitive from the get go! It seems like a waste of a year when other teams may have shifted focus onto 2014.

That being said, i think we should wait untill Sepang before writing off their start to the season!

[infy]

They switched because they felt there was little to no room for improvement with their 2012 car. They expected their 2013 challenger to be slower, but I doubt they expected it to be SO MUCH slower. They have said that this new car of theirs is meant to have a huge untapped potential and it will take a bit of time for them to get it there. They will be back at the front towards the middle of the season, because of everyone they will find laptime easier than the rest, due to the advertised potential.

[Raptor22]

2014 chassis and aero rules have been dropped. The 2012 rules will be used in 2014 so any work done on chassis and suspension this year is carried over

[skwdenyer]

2014 chassis and aero rules have been dropped. The 2012 rules will be used in 2014 so any work done on chassis and suspension this year is carried over

2014 new low nose remains. Pull rod is much more necessary for that set-up, hence there is benefit to McLaren's starting with that now.

[bhall]

GIven how much lower the nose will be next year - 185mm vs. 625mm this year - how much can really be carried over?

[Owen.C93]

Another "downgrade" on the car. Reverting to a much earlier diffuser spec with the gurney taken off the edges.

http://www.formule1.nl/media/uploads/me ... 002.29.jpg

They also removed the gurney tab on the floor flickup.

This is a Williams?!

Shoot sorry.
http://www.formule1.nl/media/uploads/me ... 002.69.jpg

[Huntresa]

2014 chassis and aero rules have been dropped. The 2012 rules will be used in 2014 so any work done on chassis and suspension this year is carried over

Actually they havent and they are still in play and will be what we get, low noses and smaller FWs and cascade less etc

[Richard]

There's a separate thread about 2014 aero with all the details. http://www.f1technical.net/forum/viewto ... ead#unread

[i70q7m7ghw]

The understeer is most likely a mechanical grip problem. There seems to be a serious problem with the front end of the car. Either they're struggling to set it up, pull-rod taking a lot longer to make changes, or the geometry is fundamentally flawed.

I'm inclined to think it's more setup issues at the moment, since Ferrari went through a similar thing last year. Malaysia is going to be more of a downforce test for the car, so we should see an improvement if the problems truly are only mechanical.