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I just had an interesting thought, and it could be a very important one going into the future. What would senna have thought of the way f1 is now, especially with the pirelli tires? When we hear so much about him in this way (good example here):
it's hard to think he would have been a fan of the way the tires can't really be driven at 100% all the time. When you watch his driving and hear him explain the excitement and challenge that comes with being all the way at the limit, it seems like we might be heading in the wrong direction, even if it's increased the number of overtakes...or "overtakes". So what do you guys think? Would he think that improving the show is worth making single lap speed be less important than tire management skills in a driver? What about DRS too? Can we ever go back to racing with normal tires and no DRS if F1 management can profit off of the increased "entertainment" value?
No disrespect to Senna, but, I don't think it matters what he thinks. F1 survived his tragic death. The technical directors, safety committees, sponsors, owners, commercial right holders and fans have the biggest say in what happens in F1. The drivers may have input, but, marginal at best. Look around the F1 market. It's a $billion dollar industry which continues to evolve with millions of fans.
Still think it tragic Senna died, Ratzenberger, G.Villeneuve and those before them. Very tragic due to poor safety. Are today's tires safer?
“Championships are won in the first half of the season, not just the second half” Raikkonen
I think Ayrton wouldn't have like the change, but relished the challenge. He didnt ever win a Grand Prix with refueling (though he only started 3 GP's with it), where as MS only won 2 GP's without refueling. My point is Senna raced in an era when managing tyre wear was an expected element of the sport. Going fast enough to win and slow enough to not break the car or wear the tyres was part of the game. This is the way it should be...
Websta wrote:it's not like F1 drivers did qualifying laps on every race lap pre-2011 anyway. F1 drivers have never pushed 100% on every lap.
Asking what Senna would think of the current regulations is just another way to phrase a question on a topic that has been debated over for two years.
hungary 1998 disagrees with you
Did every single driver do 77 qualifying laps in that race? Of course some drivers will occasionally push for the entire race distance (e.g. Alonso in the 2001 Japanese GP), but they are very rare exceptions. I meant that it has never been commonplace for drivers to push 100% for most/all of every race of a season in the modern F1 eras of Senna's and our time.
I think senna would not at all be happy about the pirelli tires of this year and would think of them as a complete joke.
Nevertheless, Senna is a man of accepting the situation and dealing with it. He dealt with accepting the complete trashcan
williams he was presented that essentially demanded too much of Senna - in the aspect that Senna's capacities were way
beyond that of the car he had at that time. In the end tho, I think of Senna as a hero, forever, however, his driving style ultimately got the best of him - his car was so low on the gravel, it has been dangerous in any race. I think senna's achievements show just what good of a driver he really was - i don't think another driver could have managed a single lap in his set-up.
That aside, I do believe Senna would kick the living sh*t out of every driver in the field today. He'd blast straight into the midfield with the Catarhams or Marussia's, he'd hump that williams into the top 6 and he'd bring that Mclaren a Win by miles from the rest of the field - imagine him driving a RedBull or Lotus.
If you just look at the difference in the material and driver attitude in the Senna era, and now, than you can spot immediately the senna-era was uncompromised manly pure racing. Fear, in today's era, is of a very high level. Offcourse there was fear in senna's era - that's another reason why Senna outrun so many drivers - i am 100% certain drivers as mansell, prost, piquet had less fear in racing then the current generation - but back then, Senna, had LESS fear even as these drivers. If you look at the way Senna drives his car, he is in constant control.
Current drivers seem to 'lose' the back of the car reguraly, but you can spot that it is a loss of control, instead of a byproduct of the way they drive. THAT is what you can spot about senna's difference: you see his ar sliding and 'losing' the back, but its a result of his driving on or over the edge, whilst maintaining control.
Today's drivers, as excellent and physical and athletic they really are, are mere wimps compared to the racing stress the drivers out of Senna's era had to deal with. Don't get me wrong - head protection, crash structures, side impact structures, circuit run-off rules, tire barriers, etc etc, have no doubt been absolutely positive to driver safety - they have also taken away the 'edge' of pure f1 racing drivers - pure guts. We have such a young field and too little seats for the drivers because it has become a sport where anybody with a buget and a bit of talent can jump into a f1 cockpit.
If any, Senna would complain about the artificiality of today's f1. DRS, tires to control the races, strict rules that prevent innovativity, weird aerodynamics, it's like it's another sport with a F1-look on it. Senna attacked politics in FIA back in his day, and guess what, we're there again. There's another frenchmen in play and you can just smell the politics present. Alonso & Massa, Perez' Ferrari orders, etc.
Senna would speak out against the circus that is being run today, whilst, at the same time - annhialating the entire field by winning, winning, winning. He'd do that with the same age he'd be if he'd still be alive today.
"Explain the ending to F1 in football terms"
"Hamilton was beating Verstappen 7-0, then the ref decided F%$& rules, next goal wins
while also sending off 4 Hamilton players to make it more interesting"
Manoah2u wrote: That aside, I do believe Senna would kick the living sh*t out of every driver in the field today. He'd blast straight into the midfield with the Catarhams or Marussia's, he'd hump that williams into the top 6 and he'd bring that Mclaren a Win by miles from the rest of the field - imagine him driving a RedBull or Lotus.
...
Senna would speak out against the circus that is being run today, whilst, at the same time - annhialating the entire field by winning, winning, winning. He'd do that with the same age he'd be if he'd still be alive today.
He wouldn't utterly dominate the sport, please! He would be a front runner and perennial championship contender, I grant you, but he would certainly not dominate the likes of Raikkonen, Alonso, Hamilton and Vettel. And he certainly wouldn't at the age of 52! He wasn't a wizard, and the top drivers of today are exceptionally talented.
This idea that sportsmen of the past being as good or better than our contemporary athletes holds very little water with me. Have you heard of Ryota Yamagata? What about Justyn Warner? They are two sprinters that ran times at the 2012 Olympics that would have seen them comfortably win the 1972 100m Olympic Finals, yet they aren't even competitive in today's field. Now we are also having the debate over whether the 2013 Miami Heat are better than the 1972 Lakers(due to the record win streaks of each team) - give me a break, the Heat would decimate any team from that era. Would Donald Bradman have averaged 99.94 against contemporary Cricketers? Would Sachin Tendulkar have averaged only 99.94 against bowlers from Bradman's era? Does the fact that Giacomo Agostini won 87% of the motorcycle races that he finished speak volumes about his skill, or does it perhaps indicate a low level of competitiveness in the 60s/70s? Etc, etc, etc.
That little rant is not directed at you Manoah, but just something I have wanted to discuss. My point is that every sport gets more competitive as time goes on, yet the superstars of the past keep getting held in such esteemed light relative to our contemporary athletes. The talent pool of athletes grows each year, and only the best make it to the top tier of their chosen sport - it is pretty straight forward. The achievements of athletes of the past are enhanced by the relative lower level of competition. Now with Senna, his achievements were made in a very competitive field in machinery comparable to modern F1, so his legend stands unquestioned (at the moment). But for Stirling Moss and Jackie Stewart (just examples) to be held in higher regard than Alonso or Hamilton? I can't agree there. If Alonso or Hamilton were to go back to Fangio's day, we would never have heard of Fangio. I can't be alone in thinking that the current superstar drivers are right at the top of the F1 all time hierarchy?
Anyway, Senna was absolutely exceptional, no arguments there, but I cannot agree that he would dominate the current field. We will also eventually see a driver that is clearly a step above Senna (TBH, I don't think we need to look too far), yet I fear Senna will far outstay his deserved reign atop the list of the greatest drivers of all time.
Maybe I should clarify my topic idea real quick, just in case it gets a little too focused on Senna- I mostly used Senna as an example of what real racing is to me, where you push the car very hard for most/all of the time, take risks, and drivers really challenge each other for position, etc. To me, he has stood for all those things, and i just wanted to bring up the idea that we should look at the current F1 in terms of those things.
Lets not get deluded with a romanticised view of the past. Every generation is different ,whether it is F1 or music, or art or technology.
In the meantime, it's reassuring to see a consistent common sense emerging ...
munudeges wrote:F1 was very tyre and fuel limited back in the mid-80s except there was probably a wider range of compounds.
feni_remmen wrote: My point is Senna raced in an era when managing tyre wear was an expected element of the sport. Going fast enough to win and slow enough to not break the car or wear the tyres was part of the game. This is the way it should be...
Websta wrote:It has never been commonplace for drivers to push 100% for most/all of every race of a season in the modern F1 eras of Senna's and our time.
Tamburello wrote:Senna was a master of managing his races. He was a conservative driver when he was at the front.
