What other drivers would have also overtaken Webber?

[mnmracer]

Wow...
I can't remember there being so much drama after Webber ignored teamorders in Silverstone '11, but for some reason the whole F1 circus is imploding because Vettel gave the viewers a race rather than a progression.

Thinking back to a certain driver who said "if you no longer go for a gap that exists you are no longer a racing driver because we are competing, we are competing to win", it got me thinking, what other drivers would have also gone for the win in this situation?

[Rikhart]

Voted senna and schumacher, but doubtfull about this last one, he had times when he did hold station behind barrichelo.

[mnmracer]

I can only remember USA 2002 ('03?), as a gift-back for Austria.
In '99 he was out of contention, but any other time he was still in the fight for the championhip? Very much doubt it.

I do wonder which people, with Silverstone '11 in mind, chose not to vote for Webber, and why.

[bhall]

I've been good lately, but this one is just tooooo pathetic to pass up.

Dude, your hero ignored his team and then lied about it in front of millions of people. This really happened; we all saw it.

And it's OK. Not even for one second do I begrudge him this, because all F1 drivers are overgrown children who look out for themselves first and foremost. That's what they're trained to do from the very beginning. It's why they succeed.

It only gets ugly when the infantile contingents of those who follow these overgrown children cannot accept the occasionally atrocious behavior of their idols and need to justify it in one way or another as acceptable practice. I thought the race thread was bad enough, what with its duplicitous back-and-forth between those who attack and defend whoever or whatever is in the best interest of their particular allegiance at the time. But, to start a thread in search of some sort of popularly fabricated exculpation of something so plainly wrong is just...weak. Puny. Lame.

Sad.

Sebastian Vettel is not a saint, and putting him in league with any other driver will not change that.

[mnmracer]

...

What the ... is your problem?
If many people argue over it, it is a fair question to pose.

Why the need to derail a thread?

[ChrisF1]

If that had been Lewis and Fernando towards the end of 2007, they would have both made the move.

[Juzh]

Good thread. I voted senna, schumacher and alonso. Everyone is quick to forget silverstone 2011 when webbo ignored team orders. It was fine then, but somehow its not fine now.

[JimClarkFan]

It is worth remembering that Webber has respected recent team orders to maintain position since 2011. Which he did.

Personally I think they should be allowed to race, but what I don't like is one treatment for one driver and the one for another. Webber has respected team orders of late, Vettel has not even though he is usually the benefactor of team orders.


Other than that I would like to report this:

I've been good lately, but this one is just tooooo pathetic to pass up.

Dude, your hero ignored his team and then lied about it in front of millions of people. This really happened; we all saw it.

And it's OK. Not even for one second do I begrudge him this, because all F1 drivers are overgrown children who look out for themselves first and foremost. That's what they're trained to do from the very beginning. It's why they succeed.

It only gets ugly when the infantile contingents of those who follow these overgrown children cannot accept the occasionally atrocious behavior of their idols and need to justify it in one way or another as acceptable practice. I thought the race thread was bad enough, what with its duplicitous back-and-forth between those who attack and defend whoever or whatever is in the best interest of their particular allegiance at the time. But, to start a thread in search of some sort of popularly fabricated exculpation of something so plainly wrong is just...weak. Puny. Lame.

Sad.

Sebastian Vettel is not a saint, and putting him in league with any other driver will not change that.

[i70q7m7ghw]

In this situation I don't think Senna would have made the pass. If he had he would have been very upfront about it. Difference is Senna would have been leading to start with

Today was a very Schumacher-like scenario. Do the bad and then apologise/lie about it afterwards.

[GrizzleBoy]

Wow...
I can't remember there being so much drama after Webber ignored teamorders in Silverstone '11, but for some reason the whole F1 circus is imploding because Vettel gave the viewers a race rather than a progression.

Thinking back to a certain driver who said "if you no longer go for a gap that exists you are no longer a racing driver because we are competing, we are competing to win", it got me thinking, what other drivers would have also gone for the win in this situation?

As I've said previously, the problem is not simply that Vettel disobeyed orders.

It is the fact that for a long time, Webber has "taken one for the team" a variety of times to help his team mate.

In this rare instance, Vettel had a chance to show repsect and teamwork towards a guy who has done the same for him many a time and all he could do was talk disrespectfully about him on the radio and show that he was not capable of returning the favour.

Then there's the barefaced "I didn't mean to do it" lies.

Its not simply about the order being disobeyed, but about how Vettel showed himself as a person.

[mnmracer]

Wow...
I can't remember there being so much drama after Webber ignored teamorders in Silverstone '11, but for some reason the whole F1 circus is imploding because Vettel gave the viewers a race rather than a progression.

Thinking back to a certain driver who said "if you no longer go for a gap that exists you are no longer a racing driver because we are competing, we are competing to win", it got me thinking, what other drivers would have also gone for the win in this situation?

As I've said previously, the problem is not simply that Vettel disobeyed orders.

It is the fact that for a long time, Webber has "taken one for the team" a variety of times to help his team mate.

In this rare instance, Vettel had a chance to show repsect and teamwork towards a guy who has done the same for him many a time and all he could do was talk disrespectfully about him on the radio and show that he was not capable of returning the favour.

Its not simply about the order being disobeyed, but about how Vettel showed himself as a person.

The question still remains, what other drivers would have gone for the win?

Besides, how often has Webber actually taken one for the team? He is the master of ignoring team-orders.

[theblackangus]

I can only remember USA 2002 ('03?), as a gift-back for Austria.
In '99 he was out of contention, but any other time he was still in the fight for the championhip? Very much doubt it.

I do wonder which people, with Silverstone '11 in mind, chose not to vote for Webber, and why.

Your just posting this last statement shows you have your own agenda. Hey guys who would do this - Oh btw Webber did. Then to state the same thing twice in your 1st two posts.

Vettel was slower than his teammate today and the only way he could deal was to be a coward and disobey the team. The kid has no character. Coward because a real man doesn't kick someone when they are down, they help them back up.

I'd trust Mark to have my back in a bad situation, Vettel is the kind of guy who would use you or anyone else as a body shield.
Kid can't see past his own nose.

The sad part is so many people making excuses for him.

Its like those people who say hateful things then say - "Whats your problem? I was just kidding."

[Raptor22]

In this situation I don't think Senna would have made the pass. If he had he would have been very upfront about it. Difference is Senna would have been leading to start with

Today was a very Schumacher-like scenario. Do the bad and then apologise/lie about it afterwards.

You mean like San Marino 1989 when he broke a gentlemens agreement.... and then gave a different perspective other than how he really felt about it.

They're competitive people, they do things to get ahead. Thats their nature. Senna would have over taken Prost in 1988, 1989 and 1990. They were team mates and gaiing ascendency over your team mate is the natural order, the way it was meant to be.
This team order thing is BS.

Senna only late in his career developed a taste for teh say it as it is. Only once he had his worldchamponship, only once he had enough sway over media opinion and enough of the other drivers.
Vettel is doing the same thing, he is not really sorry and I don;t expect him to be. But he is playing the team media game. Its pointless incurring the displeasure of your boss and then rubbing salt into the wound. Even Senna was cunning enough to mostly inform Ron what he was going to say before he said it and it suited Ron that he did because by and large, Senna was Ron's voice.

[SilverArrow10]

Who voted for Rosberg. He proved in the same race that he would have followed what the team said.

[Juzh]

I can only remember USA 2002 ('03?), as a gift-back for Austria.
In '99 he was out of contention, but any other time he was still in the fight for the championhip? Very much doubt it.

I do wonder which people, with Silverstone '11 in mind, chose not to vote for Webber, and why.

Your just posting this last statement shows you have your own agenda. Hey guys who would do this - Oh btw Webber did. Then to state the same thing twice in your 1st two posts.

Vettel was slower than his teammate today and the only way he could deal was to be a coward and disobey the team. The kid has no character. Coward because a real man doesn't kick someone when they are down, they help them back up.

I'd trust Mark to have my back in a bad situation, Vettel is the kind of guy who would use you or anyone else as a body shield.
Kid can't see past his own nose.

The sad part is so many people making excuses for him.

hahahaha, at what point in the race was he slower exactly? Apart from the botched pit stop call at the start of the race which allowed webber to get in front. If Seb was leading the race he'd be at least 10s ahead of webber in the end, simply because he was managing his tyres miles better than him. Not to mention Webber compromised sebs race by being super slow which allowed hamilton to undercut vettel trough the pits.