What other drivers would have also overtaken Webber?

[Raptor22]

Who voted for Rosberg. He proved in the same race that he would have followed what the team said.

Did he? Didn't he pass Hamilton on several occasions whilst being told to hold station and then had a debate with his boss on the matter before eventually relenting and settling in. Didn't he then also say to his boss "Remember this one...."....?

Who ever voted for Rosberg clearly watched the real race. Maybe you watched editted positive highlights?

[SilverArrow10]

Who voted for Rosberg. He proved in the same race that he would have followed what the team said.

Did he? Didn't he pass Hamilton on several occasions whilst being told to hold station and then had a debate with his boss on the matter before eventually relenting and settling in. Didn't he then also say to his boss "Remember this one...."....?

Who ever voted for Rosberg clearly watched the real race. Maybe you watched editted positive highlights?

Watched it live actully, with driver tracker and hamiltons cam on my laptop. Rosberg overtook Hamilton three times and got re-taken on the DRS zone at around the same time the Vettel, Webber scrape was going on. He got told to slow down well after that and didn;t try to overtake again which he could have done, he held station but kept close to hamilton in case he made a mistake. He then said remember this because one day in the future when Rosbergs in the lead and Hamilton is coming up behind, they will both be told to hold station.

[Raptor22]

So you conveniently leave out the bit where the team strategy was that after the 2ns stop the drivers would stop racing each other....
The 2ns stop was before Rosberg and Hamilton were exchanging places...

Blinkers, or rose tinted glasses>?

[SilverArrow10]

Does 2ns stop mean 2nd stop, because there were four stops during the race and the fight between them happened after the fourth stop but before the radio argument, where it convently stopped.

So Nico was either following team orders like I said or could'nt get past a fuel conserving Hamilton on his own and then called the team in to get rid of Hamilton.

I like to think Nico did what was right for the team to avoid a crash. Unlike Vettel, Shumacher, Alonso or Hamilton. who would have tryed to overtake their team mates.

[stfn_ger]

What other drivers would have also overtaken Webber?

Mark Webber: 6 Votes

seems legit.

[theblackangus]

I can only remember USA 2002 ('03?), as a gift-back for Austria.
In '99 he was out of contention, but any other time he was still in the fight for the championhip? Very much doubt it.

I do wonder which people, with Silverstone '11 in mind, chose not to vote for Webber, and why.

Your just posting this last statement shows you have your own agenda. Hey guys who would do this - Oh btw Webber did. Then to state the same thing twice in your 1st two posts.

Vettel was slower than his teammate today and the only way he could deal was to be a coward and disobey the team. The kid has no character. Coward because a real man doesn't kick someone when they are down, they help them back up.

I'd trust Mark to have my back in a bad situation, Vettel is the kind of guy who would use you or anyone else as a body shield.
Kid can't see past his own nose.

The sad part is so many people making excuses for him.

hahahaha, at what point in the race was he slower exactly? Apart from the botched pit stop call at the start of the race which allowed webber to get in front. If Seb was leading the race he'd be at least 10s ahead of webber in the end, simply because he was managing his tyres miles better than him. Not to mention Webber compromised sebs race by being super slow which allowed hamilton to undercut vettel trough the pits.

He was slower when he was whining by about 4-5 tenths from the stats on the tele, and obviously as Webber was in front of him and started far behind him Webber was quicker today. Not hard math.

Are you seriously so blind to everything that you cannot see the only reason Seb passed Mark at the end was because Vettel took unfair advantage? They pitted Vettel before Mark to make sure he stayed ahead of the Mercs which cost Mark time at the end.

Ill say it again for clarity - The sad part is so many people making excuses for him.
Mark was the faster man today, and by actions the only Man of the two.

[SilverArrow10]

Does 2ns stop mean 2nd stop, because there were four stops during the race and the fight between them happened after the fourth stop but before the radio argument, where it convently stopped.

So Nico was either following team orders like I said or could'nt get past a fuel conserving Hamilton on his own and then called the team in to get rid of Hamilton.

I like to think Nico did what was right for the team to avoid a crash. Unlike Vettel, Shumacher, Alonso or Hamilton. who would have tryed to overtake their team mates.

Actully I have just made a very good point and i missed it. Rosberg was asking the team to get Hamilton out of the way. He wasn't told to stop fighting during the first set of radio messages. So i wasn't right the first time I was right with the second one. Nevermind Rosberg the sly devil i may have to go back and tick him, I thought he was the victim in all that but really he wasn't, he wanted a free overtake. Like Vettel earlier on in the race

Maybe, maybe not ive been told that that wasn't what the messages were like.

[timbo]

What's the point of the voting?

[theblackangus]

What's the point of the voting?

Because someone needs affirmation that being an Arse is a good thing.... ?

[Kanebab]

This is a raw and tender subject in F1. There are many cases of team orders for the good and the bad. Im against team orders personally but I do understand why they are in F1. Originally when I first started watching F1 5 years ago team orders were not allowed. So when Massa was told by Rob Smedley a few years back that "Alonso is faster than you" and then said "Can you confirm that you understood that message" and Alonso was allowed to just take over I felt sorry for Massa because no action was taken against Ferrari for using team orders when they were not allowed. Well they recieved 60k fine but whats that in terms of punishment. It should have been that Ferrari were striped of all the points from that weekend and start from the back at the next race. In terms of today I understand come the last 3rd of the season if one of your drivers are in the running for the championship that you use your other driver to protect or help you gain points.

Today though I have to say Vettle was in the wrong. Both drivers were told to turn down there engines and bring the cars home. Vettle chose not to and attacked Webber. For Vettle this worked out well to win the race and gain all 25 points. For Webber he was robbed of a first win at the track. Webber could have Turned his engine up and continued the fight with Vettle until the end but was the real man today to end the fight and allow Vettle through. Had the fight ended in both cars crashing out and having a DNF the situation could have been so differant. In that case I would think Vettle would have been fined by the team. There was no need to pull such a risk today because his main rivals Alonso ( Crashed ) Kimi ( Too far back ) Button ( No pace ) Hamilton ( Car has yet to prove its consistant ) and Webber ( Not a consistant Driver ) The points were safe. Big gamble from Vettle and it only worked out well because Webber let it happen. From a Mclaren fan though id of liked to see Webber keep the fight on and see them both DNF so that Vettle could have been brought down to earth on this occasion. I think team orders should be banned. If they are to stay there should be regulations put in place for when and how they can be used. To benifit teams but also benifit the fans so they are not refused proper racing.

Hard to call though.

[Juzh]

Well, someone is going to town with -1 votes in this thread. Which is sad, considering a user with a high enough rating to downvote others can be that easily enraged to a point of downvoting others.

[raymondu999]

It is worth remembering that Webber has respected recent team orders to maintain position since 2011. Which he did.

Not sure that's quite the best example.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TYPCS3VXxGY[/youtube]

[Raptor22]

Does 2ns stop mean 2nd stop, because there were four stops during the race and the fight between them happened after the fourth stop but before the radio argument, where it convently stopped.

So Nico was either following team orders like I said or could'nt get past a fuel conserving Hamilton on his own and then called the team in to get rid of Hamilton.

I like to think Nico did what was right for the team to avoid a crash. Unlike Vettel, Shumacher, Alonso or Hamilton. who would have tryed to overtake their team mates.

after the 2nd stop he wasn't exactly in striking distance to race wheel to wheel was he. He took the fight to Lewis when he was close enough to do so. Doesn't change the fact that the team strategy was not to race each other after the 2nd stop. So definitely your pov is through rose colored glasses. Same situation in two different teams but with different stakes.

[Juzh]

It is worth remembering that Webber has respected recent team orders to maintain position since 2011. Which he did.

Not sure that's quite the best example.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TYPCS3VXxGY[/youtube]

Lets add something to this in case someone thinks webber intentionaly stayed behind vettel:
“Of course I ignored the team as I want to try and get another place” - Mark Webber, Silverstone 2011, post race interview

[marcush.]

isn´t it just fantastic that a Webber /Vettel incident can bring up totally false accusations towards Schumacher who is retired already?
the ones claiming he EVER did something like that towards a teammate -ignoring team orders on purpose - may please so kind and enlighten us when this happened.i cannot rememnber any incident were he actively acted against orders from the team ...save his stampede against Coulthard in the Spa pits after colliding on track.

Schumacher certainly had or has his own set of facets in his character i would not subscribe to but first and most of all he did everything for the team and doing this he helped himself of course.

I think the teams should fill up their cars enough to allow their drivers to push till the end .The modern area shortfueling in hope of a procession race with a Safetycar phase is laying the ground for these artificial hold stationary scenarios ..for little gain in the race.But you need a justification for employment of those race strategists methinks ...