Poll on 2013 Malaysian GP team orders

[WhiteBlue]

The Merc case was quite clear cut when Brawn lied to Rosberg about Hamilton being able to go faster. Hamilton had less fuel and could not have defended himself against Rosberg. He would have probably used up his fuel and stopped on track or failed the fuel sample.

We had some discussions about the Red Bull issue and I don't want to repeat the argument. But I would like to see the opinions on both cases of team orders.

As there are two questions you have two votes in this poll.

[langwadt]

I won't really call it a team order in the usual sense, it wasn't "let you team mate pass so he gets more points"

it was, ok nothing more to gain against other teams stop - fighting save fuel and tires so we get to then end, and spare the engine and gear box we need those to run again for another race

I didn't like what Vettel did but I'm sure he made the calculation that he would rather have 7 points now than bet on
Webber helping him later, they aren't exactly friends on the best of days

Nico I think just happen to be unlucky to the one in 4th place when Ross had enough, though Ross thinking that the points might be more useful in the hands of Hamilton probably had something got do with it, at the end of the season we'll see if he was right

[RB7ate9]

At Mercesdes, it was to get the best result they had ever had for both cars. They've won ONCE and gotten on the podium in 3rd a bunch of times with Rosberg. This solid 3-4 with ONLY the Red Bulls in front was a major boon to them and Brawn really just wanted Mercedes to not crash out, as they've done previously.

Red Bull.....so much as already been said....if Webber had never been told anything, he probably would have still won at the expense of mechanical components for both cars. At this point, the points are cast, trust has been broken (if they were ever held together to begin with), and its on to the next race.

[FoxHound]

It's very simple in Mercedes case.

The team cut it too fine for Hamilton with his fuel. Now why would a driver from the same team stand to benefit from this error?
He shouldn't. Hamilton demonstrated in qualifying and for 2/3rds the race that he was able to hold postion from Rosberg.
While that may be surprising to some of our German friends, it's actually a very prudent way to make sure nothing untoward happens in race.
Hamilton could easily have turned up the wick and run out of fuel, making the team look worse off.

Common sense prevailed.

Red bull is another case entirely.

[Blue fellow]

I don't understand why the Red Bull team order could be considered more justified than the Mercedes one with the information we had. We know the Mercedes one was based on fuel consumption, and Hamilton would have failed to classify if he had pushed more. But the Red Bull order, we really don't know much about the intention. But we do know when Vettel disobeyed it, both cars still finished 1-2. So how can you vote against the Mercedes team order, which had a clear reason, but then say the Red Bull one was justified?

[notsofast]

My only problem with team orders is when they are not being communicated to the fans. That's what brings the sport into disrepute in my mind. It's a team sport. Let the teams have orders. But communicate those orders to the fans, so we don't waste our time cheering on a driver who will not be allowed to win.

In this particular case, it was made clear to the fans, especially in the case of Mercedes, so I don't have a problem with this weekend's team orders.

[beardRage]

Technically, both teams were right, but they were also wrong. You obviously want both cars to finish, but Nico was running better than Ham and should have been allowed to pass. Hamilton feels that way himself. As for RBR, you once again want both cars to finish, but, there has decidedly been much favoritism towards Vettel, he IS a 3 time champion in that car. You would normally want him on top, but, you want to keep BOTH drivers happy, orders favoring Webber would certainly help. I see their orders as throwing Webber a bone, a well deserved bone, indeed perhaps a needed bone. Unfortunately, Vettel being a spoiled child decided to display his true colors for all to see, and RBR may suffer because of it. Even a loyal dog can bite the hand that feeds.

[Just_a_fan]

F1 is a team sport. The drivers are employed by the team to drive for the team. If the team decide A to finish in front of B in order to maximise team points without the risk of a collision between their drivers then that's their call.

The fans forget, sometimes, that the driver's title is really second to the team title in the sport. The driver title doesn't bring any more money to the team (bar a bit of sponsorship perhaps) but big team points are worth millions to the team. The team title also brings good sponsorship money too. People's need to have stars is why the drivers are lauded but they are just a cog in the machine.

Remember - F1 is a team endeavour.

[mnmracer]

Depends on your definition of right.

Red Bull
Was it their right as an employer? Yes
Was it right in the team's pursuit of the WCC? Possibly yes

Was it right in the team's pursuit of the WDC? No
Was it right towards driver whose strategy dictated a fast last stint? No
Was it right towards their best performing driver for the last 4 years? No
Was it right towards the fans making their sponshorship worth a penny? No
Was it right in favor of a driver who has no respect for teamorders himself? No

Mercedes
Was it their right as an employer? Yes
Was it right in the team's pursuit of the WCC? Possibly yes

Was it right towards driver whose strategy dictated a fast last stint? No
Was it right towards the team's senior driver? No
Was it right towards the fans making their sponshorship worth a penny? No

So overall, no.

[cokezero]

the point of the championship is to find the fastest driver/manufacturer....team orders jsut spoil tha!

[pocketmoon]

It's very simple in Mercedes case.
The team cut it too fine for Hamilton with his fuel. Now why would a driver from the same team stand to benefit from this error? He shouldn't.

Of course he should. Why cripple two cars when it's only one with a problem ?

Rosberg was flying in Q2 in the dry and clearly faster the Hamilton in stints 2 & 3. Hamilton acknowledged Nico was faster and drove a smarter race so why shouldn't he be allowed to overtake ?

The decision was there to be made and it wasn't because of the fear over tyres, which I fully understand when you're only on your second race of the season.

[Richard]

the point of the championship is to find the fastest driver/manufacturer....team orders jsut spoil tha!

Tell Fangio. Without team orders he would have lost the 1956 WDC to Peter Collins. My point is that team have always been part of F1.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1956_Italian_Grand_Prix

[mnmracer]

The team cut it too fine for Hamilton with his fuel. Now why would a driver from the same team stand to benefit from this error?

They did not 'cut him too fine'.
Hamilton used his advantage of a higher running engine (using more fuel) earlier in the race.
They both had that advantage, to driver some laps faster. Nico chose to use that advantage later, and he was punished for it.

[JimClarkFan]

The team cut it too fine for Hamilton with his fuel. Now why would a driver from the same team stand to benefit from this error?

They did not 'cut him too fine'.
Hamilton used his advantage of a higher running engine (using more fuel) earlier in the race.
They both had that advantage, to driver some laps faster. Nico chose to use that advantage later, and he was punished for it.

Do we know that for sure?

Admittedly I did think that too, however what Ross Brawn said after the race would seem to indicate otherwise.

I thought Nico approached the pass on Hamilton in a rather silly way, by choosing the pass Hamilton in the first DRS zone he gave Hamilton the DRS advantage in the second zone which meant he was always getting re-passed. I reckon he could have got the job done had he aimed to pass in the second DRS rather than the first one.

[FoxHound]

The team cut it too fine for Hamilton with his fuel. Now why would a driver from the same team stand to benefit from this error?

They did not 'cut him too fine'.
Hamilton used his advantage of a higher running engine (using more fuel) earlier in the race.
They both had that advantage, to driver some laps faster. Nico chose to use that advantage later, and he was punished for it.

Auto motor und sport reported yesterday that Mercedes anticipated rain and underfueled the cars, more so in hamiltons case.

He did not run higher engine setting for longer as you suggest.