Poll on 2013 Malaysian GP team orders

[Juzh]

Hamilton did all the dirty work of harassing the bulls, while Nico just laid back and saved fuel and then he wants preference at the end of the race?!! Ridiculous! I fully support the team orders given in Malaysia.

Well said, =D> End of topic n my view.

hahahaha gotta love blind hamilton fans. anyway, good to not have you here anymore.

[rkn]

Well said, =D> End of topic n my view.

No, this is.

You have to remember that Hamilton was running either too rich or too light on fuel early on - and paid for this at the end, while Rosberg paid for it at the start. Had they been on a 56-lap time trial, Rosberg probably would have out finished Hamilton. AND Hamilton admitted to that himself.

Hamilton HIMSELF has admitted that Rosberg could have overtaken him, and also that ROS deserved the podium more.

[beelsebob]

You have to remember that Hamilton was running either too rich or too light on fuel early on - and paid for this at the end, while Rosberg paid for it at the start. Had they been on a 56-lap time trial, Rosberg probably would have out finished Hamilton. AND Hamilton admitted to that himself.

Hamilton HIMSELF has admitted that Rosberg could have overtaken him, and also that ROS deserved the podium more.

Hamilton of course admitted this at a point where he had no idea how much fuel ROS had left. Ross Brawn hinted that they'd take the drivers inside and show them the data, and that then they'd understand the team orders. To me, that suggests that ROS would have been in the exact same situation had he passed HAM.

[rkn]

You have to remember that Hamilton was running either too rich or too light on fuel early on - and paid for this at the end, while Rosberg paid for it at the start. Had they been on a 56-lap time trial, Rosberg probably would have out finished Hamilton. AND Hamilton admitted to that himself.

Hamilton HIMSELF has admitted that Rosberg could have overtaken him, and also that ROS deserved the podium more.

Hamilton of course admitted this at a point where he had no idea how much fuel ROS had left. Ross Brawn hinted that they'd take the drivers inside and show them the data, and that then they'd understand the team orders. To me, that suggests that ROS would have been in the exact same situation had he passed HAM.

Hamilton said, Brawn hinted, which then makes your statement pure speculation. Also, he could have passed HAM and ran on the same pace as he did anyways, problem solved.

[beelsebob]

Hamilton of course admitted this at a point where he had no idea how much fuel ROS had left. Ross Brawn hinted that they'd take the drivers inside and show them the data, and that then they'd understand the team orders. To me, that suggests that ROS would have been in the exact same situation had he passed HAM.

Hamilton said, Brawn hinted, which then makes your statement pure speculation.

The point being that Hamilton's statement too was pure speculation - he had no clue what state ROS's car was in.

[rkn]

Hamilton of course admitted this at a point where he had no idea how much fuel ROS had left. Ross Brawn hinted that they'd take the drivers inside and show them the data, and that then they'd understand the team orders. To me, that suggests that ROS would have been in the exact same situation had he passed HAM.

Hamilton said, Brawn hinted, which then makes your statement pure speculation.

The point being that Hamilton's statement too was pure speculation - he had no clue what state ROS's car was in.

There's no doubt HAM was the lighter car at the end, ROS could have passed him easily since HAM was coasting since lap 25. He also could have done this WITHOUT burning a lot of fuel since HAM was essentially a sitting duck, and then ran the same pace he did anyways (saving fuel) to finish the race. Rosberg obeyed team orders and didn't pass.

[beelsebob]

Hamilton said, Brawn hinted, which then makes your statement pure speculation.

The point being that Hamilton's statement too was pure speculation - he had no clue what state ROS's car was in.

There's no doubt HAM was the lighter car at the end

Isn't there? What evidence backs that up?

ROS could have passed him easily since HAM was coasting since lap 25. He also could have done this WITHOUT burning a lot of fuel since HAM was essentially a sitting duck, and then ran the same pace he did anyways (saving fuel) to finish the race. Rosberg obeyed team orders and didn't pass.

Again, what evidence do you have that ROS wasn't told to hold back exactly because he had the same amount of fuel as HAM, and hence couldn't have done any more than HAM was already doing.

[rkn]

Isn't there? What evidence backs that up?

Again, what evidence do you have that ROS wasn't told to hold back exactly because he had the same amount of fuel as HAM, and hence couldn't have done any more than HAM was already doing.

Maybe I should clarify, I'm not suggesting that ROS should have passed in order to challenge REd Bull. But like the original post of Raymondu999 I agree with, and the fact that ROS drove the better race is what I'm arguing. The evidence that ROS had more fuel is that he wasn't asked to coast and save fuel, HAM was, ROS was asked to hold position to ensure a good result for the team. ROS also knew that HAM was going so slow that he could have easily passed him and repeatedly asked for permission to do this. A pass of HAM at the slow pace he was going, wouldn't have cost ROS much fuel, and then he could have returned to cruise mode (which he drove on anyway) since HAM couldn't push his car to take the position back anyway.

[Juzh]

Rosberg was faster and could have passed hamilton after a few more drs attempts no question about it. He was told to hold station for whatever reason (ross favouring hamilton obviously, at least in that race).

[beelsebob]

Isn't there? What evidence backs that up?

Again, what evidence do you have that ROS wasn't told to hold back exactly because he had the same amount of fuel as HAM, and hence couldn't have done any more than HAM was already doing.

Maybe I should clarify, I'm not suggesting that ROS should have passed in order to challenge REd Bull. But like the original post of Raymondu999 I agree with, and the fact that ROS drove the better race is what I'm arguing.

And I don't think either particularly drove a better race – the two drove very very similar races.

The evidence that ROS had more fuel is that he wasn't asked to coast and save fuel

No, he was asked to stay behind HAM, which implied coasting and saving fuel, because he would have to run at the same pace as HAM.

ROS was asked to hold position to ensure a good result for the team.

You have no way to tell that the reason was not that he too needed to lift and coast.

ROS also knew that HAM was going so slow that he could have easily passed him and repeatedly asked for permission to do this.

Just like HAM knew that HAM was going slow. HAM knew the reason he was going slowly. ROS did not. You have done nothing to dismiss the possibility that ROS was asked to stay behind exactly because he too needed to lift and coast.

[FrukostScones]

report from AutoBildMotorSport:

"Both cars were low on fuel. And that's not just a story it is the truth". T. Wolff

Confronted with this quote from his team boss, Rosberg left the table shocked, to collect himself. Then for the first time in his Mercedes career plain talking: "I don't know what Toto said. And I can't comment on that now, without having spoken to him. In every case I had not to save abnormally much fuel. Everything was in the green range."

[beelsebob]

report from AutoBildMotorSport:

"Both cars were low on fuel. And that's not just a story it is the truth". T. Wolff

So that appears to confirm that ROS was asked to stay behind exactly because he too needed to lift and coast.

[FrukostScones]

report from AutoBildMotorSport:

"Both cars were low on fuel. And that's not just a story it is the truth". T. Wolff

So that appears to confirm that ROS was asked to stay behind exactly because he too needed to lift and coast.

yeah, only ROS says it is a lie.

[beelsebob]

So that appears to confirm that ROS was asked to stay behind exactly because he too needed to lift and coast.

yeah, only ROS says it is a lie.

But as we already covered – the drivers don't always know the technical details of how much fuel they actually have. They're told only what they need to know. Brawn also hinted at exactly this after the race when he said "we'll show the drivers the data, and then they'll understand".

[FrukostScones]

So that appears to confirm that ROS was asked to stay behind exactly because he too needed to lift and coast.

yeah, only ROS says it is a lie.

But as we already covered – the drivers don't always know the technical details of how much fuel they actually have. They're told only what they need to know. Brawn also hinted at exactly this after the race when he said "we'll show the drivers the data, and then they'll understand".

but if they didn't tell ROS to save fuel, he was low on fuel but not told until he was blocked by HAM (or never...)?
Was he told to save fuel? Where is the proof? ROS should know maybe better.