Fuel Level Cause Race Disrepute

[raymondu999]

All what has been said here is true, however this fuel saving is just a lame excuse from the teams to justify their team orders. The drivers can both set their cars to max fuel saving and still race against each other. Mercedes simply did not want to risk a crash when the drivers kept fighting against each other. Even in fuel save mode Nico could still have overtaken Hamilton by using the DRS. Not to mention that Nico himself said he had enough fuel which actually shows that the Mercedes team brings up an excuse and lies for that.

BINGO MEP!!!! Team orders suck. Lets hope WhiteBlue is right with the problem going away next year with new engine formula....or at the very least, fewer incidents of obvious application of team orders.

If you're angry that fuelsaving is used as a cover for "hold position," I'm with you.

If you're angry that they're gambling, and then having to save fuel, I say tough luck - they're humans. Humans gamble.

[Clew]

But to the serious technically and strategically savvy F1 viewer, it sucks to see 1 out of 20 races, 2 races in the season, be ruined by miscalculation of probability.

Well, there's a reason that bridge building hasn't evolved into the spectator sport it was once hoped to be. We don't expect F1 teams to play it safe and get things right 100% of the time - that would be, well, boring. We want them on the edge of everything, and that includes their fuel calculations.

I can only think that you're a recent fan of the sport. The cars are so much more reliable today than ten years ago and the same can be said for their fuel calculations.

And as I said before, the fuel isn't an excuse for team orders - they don't need an excuse, they just frickin do it. It's allowed.

No sir, I've been watching F1 for some time now and watched team orders be applied to the likes of Mika and David......Michael and Irvine....Michael and Rubens....Kimi and Massa....Fernando and Fisico.... Fernando and Massa....etc...etc

Since the advent of no in-race refueling, we have seen more instances of fuel consumption "problems"

[Clew]

All what has been said here is true, however this fuel saving is just a lame excuse from the teams to justify their team orders. The drivers can both set their cars to max fuel saving and still race against each other. Mercedes simply did not want to risk a crash when the drivers kept fighting against each other. Even in fuel save mode Nico could still have overtaken Hamilton by using the DRS. Not to mention that Nico himself said he had enough fuel which actually shows that the Mercedes team brings up an excuse and lies for that.

BINGO MEP!!!! Team orders suck. Lets hope WhiteBlue is right with the problem going away next year with new engine formula....or at the very least, fewer incidents of obvious application of team orders.

If you're angry that fuelsaving is used as a cover for "hold position," I'm with you.

If you're angry that they're gambling, and then having to save fuel, I say tough luck - they're humans. Humans gamble.

I'm angry because Merc's engineers got it wrong and ruined the Malaysian race's conclusion.

[Pup]

Since the advent of no in-race refueling, we have seen more instances of fuel consumption "problems"

That's to be expected, though, isn't it? I mean, one of the fears about getting rid of refueling was that we'd have more DNF's. I remember lively discussions on the forums about whether that was a good thing or not.

It's just that today they have better sensors, computers, controls, etc., so instead of DNF's we see instructions from the wall to switch engine settings. As Hollus said, underfueling is a fact for every car on the grid. They all slow down to save fuel in the latter parts of the race. It's just that we only hear about it in situations like this. The far worse sin, IMO, is seeing a competitor closing in on the leader, only to dial in back when the guys on the wall tell him he's had his chance.

[raymondu999]

I'm angry because Merc's engineers got it wrong and ruined the Malaysian race's conclusion.

What makes you think they got it wrong? What if filling the Mercs with enough fuel to go racing for all 56 laps, is, in fact, the slower way around? (thanks to the extra fuel weight to have to drive around)

[Clew]

Let's bring back refueling and see how races evolve with these unpredictable Pirelli tyres

[Clew]

I'm angry because Merc's engineers got it wrong and ruined the Malaysian race's conclusion.

What makes you think they got it wrong? What if filling the Mercs with enough fuel to go racing for all 56 laps, is, in fact, the slower way around? (thanks to the extra fuel weight to have to drive around)

So, you found the race's conclusion exciting did you I hope not

Nico should have had the opportunity to continue on and fight the Red Bulls or at least pass LH.

[Pup]

In days past, Nico would have passed Hamilton, and then he would have run out of fuel.

But yes, it would have been a lot more exciting.

Let's bring back refueling and see how races evolve with these unpredictable Pirelli tyres

Let's bring back both refueling and decent tires, and see how the races evolve when the teams are pushing the limits of something other than rubber.

[Clew]

Let's bring back both refueling and decent tires, and see how the races evolve when the teams are pushing the limits of something other than rubber.

=D>

[raymondu999]

I'm angry because Merc's engineers got it wrong and ruined the Malaysian race's conclusion.

What makes you think they got it wrong? What if filling the Mercs with enough fuel to go racing for all 56 laps, is, in fact, the slower way around? (thanks to the extra fuel weight to have to drive around)

So, you found the race's conclusion exciting did you I hope not

No - and I never said I did

Nico should have had the opportunity to continue on and fight the Red Bulls or at least pass LH.

IF he had enough fuel on board. Hamilton was also burning up more fuel than optimal earlier on - hence fuelsaving at the end. But without that early fuel burn (or that early phase of running too light), he would NOT have been as close to the Red Bulls as he was.

[Cam]

IF he had enough fuel on board. Hamilton was also burning up more fuel than optimal earlier on - hence fuelsaving at the end. But without that early fuel burn (or that early phase of running too light), he would NOT have been as close to the Red Bulls as he was.

Yep, that's how I read it too. Under-fuelling also gives a team a qualifying boost, by being lighter. They potentially run faster, ending up higher on the grid and take a penalty of backing off at the end to get home.

Strategy is a huge part of F1, which is why I love it, and this aspect of fuelling is part of that strategy and it's open to all teams fairly. You can carry more fuel or less, your choice and you live with the pros and cons of doing so.

Gambling is part of any sport. If this was not true, we'd never see a driver 'risk' going from wets to slicks before the others hoping to gain an advantage, ergo, a gamble. Sometimes it works, sometimes not so much. Every driver has that same opportunity.

Having less access to fuel actually forces the team to innovate to get further, faster, on less. Which is what F1 (used) to be about. You can get find a benefit through ingenuity and profit from it. There's nothing wrong with that in my book. As opposed to the tires, which just f(*^ with the races for the heck of it.

[raymondu999]

A big +1 from me. Took the words right out of my mouth, Cam.

[Websta]

Let's bring back refuelling and see how races evolve with these unpredictable Pirelli tyres

I was never a big fan of refuelling - it really ruined qualifying for a few years and it also limited the flexibility of the strategies a bit. Once committed to a fuel load, the driver really had to stay out for the entire stint to gain full advantage or else they compromise their overall race pace. And you were just bemoaning the teams "inability to calculate the correct fuel levels" - how do you think they would cope with refuelling for optimal stint times based around the unpredictable durability of the Pirellis?

[Tommy Cookers]

Under-fuelling also gives a team a qualifying boost, by being lighter. They potentially run faster, ending up higher on the grid and take a penalty of backing off at the end to get home.

???????????

please clarify, someone
(I don't watch or follow the qualifying)

[bhall]

I think someone forgot that cars no longer have to run race-level fuel loads in qualifying.