McLaren MP4-28 Mercedes

[ringo]

A lot shape change in the tyres sidewall and contact patch...
Mclaren's downfall may also have to do with their tyre models as well. The suspension could be very dependent on tyre damping and spring characteristics.
The car is all over the place.
I feel no aerodynamic upgrade can fix this. We saw when Button had to ask to have a rideheight increase. That's directly saying enough of this peak downforce thing, give me usuable downforce though it may be less.

Wont be surprised if we suspension geometry change a few races down if they can't solve the problem with aero adjustments.

[Sevach]

Wow

That car is wobbling all around, and note how there is no suspension movement at all.

I don't know what it is with Mclaren, every once in a while they make a car that is way too hard.

[Owen.C93]

I mean you can try and play around with rebound settings to match the bouncing, but it causes other problems on turn in etc.

[Drewd11]

Wow

That car is wobbling all around, and note how there is no suspension movement at all.

I don't know what it is with Mclaren, every once in a while they make a car that is way too hard.

Sort of cool: no suspension movement means that they cant damp the oscillations.

Armchair aerodynamicist here, but it would be a b**ch to try and tune out an oscillation that starts with the application of the brakes and turns into a forced oscillation resulting from the increasing downforce on the front end as the teatray and front wing approach the ground when you arent allowed to touch the tires (which in that vid were the only moving suspension parts).

[Crucial_Xtreme]

Wont be surprised if we suspension geometry change a few races down if they can't solve the problem with aero adjustments.

Giorgio Piola says the car will need a suspension change and basically says that it's coming.

Link

[PhillipM]

There was certainly a lot of oscillations/vibrations in yaw even with the car braking in a straight line, looked to be in the sidewalls mainly but I don't see many other cars doing that.

[henra]

Wow

That car is wobbling all around, and note how there is no suspension movement at all.

I don't know what it is with Mclaren, every once in a while they make a car that is way too hard.

Sort of cool: no suspension movement means that they cant damp the oscillations.

Wow! just wow.
I have never seen an F1 car with such a stiff supension before. There was not the slightest sign of springs on the front. I wonder if they replaced them with solid sleeves....

[Maelstrom]

They are certainly making progress with the car though. I think it will only get better from here on. I predict they'll be back amongst the top in three-four races.

[Mr.G]

Yes, but this weekend RBR had bad week, so it will be a little bit more difficult form McL when RBR will be back on track.

[JimClarkFan]

I have to admit, on seeing several cars entering a few corners it does seem as if the mclaren is very.... very stiff compared to the front runners.

If the problem is indeed suspension, which is causing the car to bounce around everywhere reducing grip, then their 'steps forward' might actually be steps back in the context of a working suspension.

[aral]

I have to admit, on seeing several cars entering a few corners it does seem as if the mclaren is very.... very stiff compared to the front runners.

If the problem is indeed suspension, which is causing the car to bounce around everywhere reducing grip, then their 'steps forward' might actually be steps back in the context of a working suspension.

Oddly enough, rear views of the McLaren suspension from on board, showed it to be very soft. Far softer than most other cars. RBR go for stiff suspension and allow the tyres to do the work, Mclaren appear to do the opposite. Who is right? Currently it seems to be RBR?

[marcush.]

I can´t see how you could make use of the front dampers without any suspension movement ...the car just relies on tyre squash in terms of fron tsuspension -and as a result no or negligeable damping in the front suspension .
It does not look like this approach does reduce the front rideheight changes though as they are dragging the teatray under braking big time .They have made a mess out of the front suspension and this really is the root for the aero difficulties .The aim is not to have no suspension movement but control over splitter height -so you are in control of your aeromaps .With the front tyres out of the equation you have no control as the sidewalls are squasing by more than your actual front rideheight is at the splitter nose-

[henra]

Yes as suspected, i figured tha tailpipe was a bit to low and in the way of the sidepod flow.
However this is just a small piece of the puzzle.

Yup! Sidepods look much better now. Not quite the class of the field yet but they should give the coke bottle flow a much better chance to make the diffuser work.

[Pup]

The exhaust was moved forward to provide a more reliable, if weakened, effect on the diffuser.

Exhaust pipes have been moved further forward, thus reducing their effect, but the position was likely to cause excessive sensitivity to depressing the accelerator pedal, which is why there is an instability.

The problem is still with ride height sensitivity and the oscillations due to the diffuser stalling, recovering, stalling...bouncy bouncy. Scarbs talked about it on Windsor after Malaysia. I don't know if 'stalling' is really correct, but at least there's a phase where it's not affective, for whatever reason. The reason I say that is because it worked well when the car was set too low, which seems a bit counterintuitive. Seems more likely to me that there's a low point at which the diffuser 'catches', but the car is right on the edge of that point so the effect is easily broken by a bump, or by braking, turning, driving in traffic etc. - pretty much all that stuff you do when racing.

Regardless, the suspension is practically rigid to try to deal with it all, and no doubt they'd soften it if they could. Too bad the tires can't be made rigid, too. So moving the exhaust forward is surely a step back in terms of outright downforce, but of course it helps the stability, which has a greater effect on performance at the moment. Perhaps we'll see it moved back again as part of the Barcelona package?

AMuS says that the reason McLaren got the rear tires wrong is because they deform differently on the current car than on last year's. As a result, the test they did in Brazil last year apparently sent McLaren down the wrong path. And supposedly they aren't the only ones with the same problem, with both Williams and Sauber having similar issues.

http://translate.google.com/translate?s ... 20110.html

Motorsport Total says that the package they ran this weekend hadn't seen the wind tunnel. The Barcelona package has a monopoly on the tunnel for now. Seems that McLaren are determined not to repeat the mistake they made in '09 when they went all out on early upgrades as opposed to taking their time to do a solid fix in Spain. It's interesting also that they say that McLaren were too conservative with the tires this weekend, and could have pushed Jenson harder had they known.

http://translate.google.com/translate?s ... 41445.html

It will definitely be a different car in Barcelona. Hopefully better, too.

@Pup: there's a fair bit of flex in the tea tray leading edge too by the look of it in that slow-mo video

Cheaters!

[JimClarkFan]

The exhaust was moved forward to provide a more reliable, if weakened, effect on the diffuser.

Exhaust pipes have been moved further forward, thus reducing their effect, but the position was likely to cause excessive sensitivity to depressing the accelerator pedal, which is why there is an instability.

The problem is still with ride height sensitivity and the oscillations due to the diffuser stalling, recovering, stalling...bouncy bouncy. Scarbs talked about it on Windsor after Malaysia. I don't know if 'stalling' is really correct, but at least there's a phase where it's not affective, for whatever reason. The reason I say that is because it worked well when the car was set too low, which seems a bit counterintuitive. Seems more likely to me that there's a low point at which the diffuser 'catches', but the car is right on the edge of that point so the effect is easily broken by a bump, or by braking, turning, driving in traffic etc. - pretty much all that stuff you do when racing.

Regardless, the suspension is practically rigid to try to deal with it all, and no doubt they'd soften it if they could. Too bad the tires can't be made rigid, too. So moving the exhaust forward is surely a step back in terms of outright downforce, but of course it helps the stability, which has a greater effect on performance at the moment. Perhaps we'll see it moved back again as part of the Barcelona package?

AMuS says that the reason McLaren got the rear tires wrong is because they deform differently on the current car than on last year's. As a result, the test they did in Brazil last year apparently sent McLaren down the wrong path. And supposedly they aren't the only ones with the same problem, with both Williams and Sauber having similar issues.

http://translate.google.com/translate?s ... 20110.html

Motorsport Total says that the package they ran this weekend hadn't seen the wind tunnel. The Barcelona package has a monopoly on the tunnel for now. Seems that McLaren are determined not to repeat the mistake they made in '09 when they went all out on early upgrades as opposed to taking their time to do a solid fix in Spain. It's interesting also that they say that McLaren were too conservative with the tires this weekend, and could have pushed Jenson harder had they known.

http://translate.google.com/translate?s ... 41445.html

It will definitely be a different car in Barcelona. Hopefully better, too.

@Pup: there's a fair bit of flex in the tea tray leading edge too by the look of it in that slow-mo video

Cheaters!

Sigh... this disappoints me.
If they have not made a significant step forward by Barcelona, their season will effectively be over.
I think it would be better if they keep the exhausts in the position they were and fix whatever the aerodynamic problem at the back actually is. If you are correct, moving the exhausts forward is a half solution.