McLaren MP4-28 Mercedes

[Crucial_Xtreme]

Sigh... this disappoints me.
If they have not made a significant step forward by Barcelona, their season will effectively be over.
I think it would be better if they keep the exhausts in the position they were and fix whatever the aerodynamic problem at the back actually is. If you are correct, moving the exhausts forward is a half solution.

Giorgio Piola whom is well respected in F1 is the one who broke the no wind tunnel parts story. All the focus is on the Barcelona update in which we'll see a new rear suspension amongst other things.

Link

The new McLaren were not made in the wind tunnel!
Woking engineers admitted that some parts have been modified with gumption

McLaren relies on experience rather than science. At a time of serious crisis in which the MP4-28 revealed major problems due to aerodynamic rear over-dependency by varying the height (the British call pitch sensitivity) that makes the car unstable in behaviour and hard to ride, engineers have relied on pragmatism to try to recover.

REVOLUTION IN SPAIN waiting for it to arrive the new rear suspension with a completely redone for the Gp of Spain, you are trying to put an impromptu solutions the two drivers, Jenson Button and Sergio Perez, to defend themselves better than has happened in Australia and Malaysia.

Diffuser cut like you might see in this column has changed the side of MP4-28 which is now more rounded in the area of discharges, renouncing the slenderness that had been found in the area of Coca Cola. Effe 1 Tech image, you can see the change that was made to the speaker that was "cut" on the two sides to increase the airflow between the rear wheel and wing support.

CHANGES of COMMON SENSE these novelties are not the fruit of painstaking research work in the wind tunnel, but are the findings that emerged from the "common sense" of technicians led by Tim Goss and his experience: after Malaysia there would not be time to follow the entire process for the resolution of new pieces.

SKIPPED the WINDTUNNEL design of particular parts, the making of the scale model for the wind tunnel, testing in the wind tunnel, data analysis and then proceed to the construction of carbon fiber material that requires a specific processing with non-collapsible times (autoclave cooking): these are the steps that require a few weeks to decide on new parts.

Save time and is for this reason that Woking technicians have taken the responsibility to skip some steps (for example the wind tunnel) to accelerate the creation of the package that arrived in Shanghai: f. ultra-modern 1, so if you can still find answers to problems without necessarily being limited by technology ...

[Pup]

Well, if it's true that all the current changes are hacks to get them to Barcelona, then we can at least be thankful that the changes are working. I mean, since they're working, it's reasonable to assume that they have a handle on the problem and that the Barcelona package then won't be a dud.

In '09, they didn't get the car sorted until Germany, and I remember Whitmarsh saying at the time that they had made a tactical error by putting so many people on the early upgrades and not taking the time to fully understand the problem. They essentially had nothing for Barcelona that year, and whatever prior improvements they had made just disappeared in a puff of smoke when the other teams brought their upgrades.

So I think they've made the right decision. And I'm impressed that they have done what they have, given that they've apparently limited what resources are available in the interim.

We can also take heart that the car is apparently very easy on its tires, despite its problems. Combine that with some outright speed and it will be a winner.

[Pup]

All the focus is on the Barcelona update in which we'll see a new rear suspension amongst other things.

This would surprise me far less than a revised front suspension, despite all the forum hand wringing about squat.

[jamesalexw]

I'm a long time lurker and I hope you guys don't mind me chipping in, but I've seen a lot
of comments regarding the front suspension and I think it might be misguided.

There was an interview with Nico Rosberg after the GP in China where he said something on the
rear suspension had broken and it was causing the front to bounce. If I can find the interview
online somewhere I will try and post it.

[aral]

I'm a long time lurker and I hope you guys don't mind me chipping in, but I've seen a lot
of comments regarding the front suspension and I think it might be misguided.

There was an interview with Nico Rosberg after the GP in China where he said something on the
rear suspension had broken and it was causing the front to bounce. If I can find the interview
online somewhere I will try and post it.

It could well be something in the rear suspension, but as the suspension is now interlinked, a false impression of the actual problem could be given.

[Owen.C93]

I'm a long time lurker and I hope you guys don't mind me chipping in, but I've seen a lot
of comments regarding the front suspension and I think it might be misguided.

There was an interview with Nico Rosberg after the GP in China where he said something on the
rear suspension had broken and it was causing the front to bounce. If I can find the interview
online somewhere I will try and post it.

He said he noticed that the front wheel was lifting which is indicative of a broken anti roll bar at the rear.

[JimClarkFan]

Sigh... this disappoints me.
If they have not made a significant step forward by Barcelona, their season will effectively be over.
I think it would be better if they keep the exhausts in the position they were and fix whatever the aerodynamic problem at the back actually is. If you are correct, moving the exhausts forward is a half solution.

Giorgio Piola whom is well respected in F1 is the one who broke the no wind tunnel parts story. All the focus is on the Barcelona update in which we'll see a new rear suspension amongst other things.

Link

The new McLaren were not made in the wind tunnel!
Woking engineers admitted that some parts have been modified with gumption

McLaren relies on experience rather than science. At a time of serious crisis in which the MP4-28 revealed major problems due to aerodynamic rear over-dependency by varying the height (the British call pitch sensitivity) that makes the car unstable in behaviour and hard to ride, engineers have relied on pragmatism to try to recover.

REVOLUTION IN SPAIN waiting for it to arrive the new rear suspension with a completely redone for the Gp of Spain, you are trying to put an impromptu solutions the two drivers, Jenson Button and Sergio Perez, to defend themselves better than has happened in Australia and Malaysia.

Diffuser cut like you might see in this column has changed the side of MP4-28 which is now more rounded in the area of discharges, renouncing the slenderness that had been found in the area of Coca Cola. Effe 1 Tech image, you can see the change that was made to the speaker that was "cut" on the two sides to increase the airflow between the rear wheel and wing support.

CHANGES of COMMON SENSE these novelties are not the fruit of painstaking research work in the wind tunnel, but are the findings that emerged from the "common sense" of technicians led by Tim Goss and his experience: after Malaysia there would not be time to follow the entire process for the resolution of new pieces.

SKIPPED the WINDTUNNEL design of particular parts, the making of the scale model for the wind tunnel, testing in the wind tunnel, data analysis and then proceed to the construction of carbon fiber material that requires a specific processing with non-collapsible times (autoclave cooking): these are the steps that require a few weeks to decide on new parts.

Save time and is for this reason that Woking technicians have taken the responsibility to skip some steps (for example the wind tunnel) to accelerate the creation of the package that arrived in Shanghai: f. ultra-modern 1, so if you can still find answers to problems without necessarily being limited by technology ...

[-o< please make this be true...
Thanks for the info

[Shakeman]

#F1 McLaren updates for Spain: FW, RW, sidepods, deflectors, exhaust, floor, engine cover. Nose stays high & they keep pullrod-front.

Re-tweeted by F1 Fanatic. from Tobias Grüner

That's nearly a new car.

[Neno]

#F1 McLaren updates for Spain: FW, RW, sidepods, deflectors, exhaust, floor, engine cover. Nose stays high & they keep pullrod-front.

Re-tweeted by F1 Fanatic. from Tobias Grüner

That's nearly a new car.

yup that is completly new car, i expect even new chassis because changes are to big

[Thunder]

I dont't think they bring a new Chassis.

I am however confident they understood what the Problem was and will be in a good Position from Barcelona onwards.

[Pup]

#F1 McLaren updates for Spain: FW, RW, sidepods, deflectors, exhaust, floor, engine cover. Nose stays high & they keep pullrod-front.

Re-tweeted by F1 Fanatic. from Tobias Grüner

That's nearly a new car.

I don't think any of that is unexpected though. Like I said a few weeks back, if they're 'remapping' the aero, if that's the right word for it, then it's more likely to be small tweaks at numerous points from front to back rather than a big change to one or two major parts of the car. I think what we're hoping for is that not only will the aero be fixed, but also developed to the same level as they'd have originally planned to be at Barcelona - or at least close to it.

[Pup]

AMuS changes it's tire story a bit, now saying that it's the 60% wind tunnel tires that the teams were given which don't deform like the actual ones...

http://translate.google.com/translate?s ... 21029.html

[shelly]

That's very interesting - I think pirelli supplies the same 60% scale tyres to all the teams, and that together with other technical consideration is what led all the teams to make a transition (sometimes painful, like for ferrari and mercedes) from 50% to 60% windtunnel models.

If the model tyres are the same for every team, what changes the game is how you load them in the windtunnel, i.e. how do you support your model, how do you push the model tyres against the rolling road.

If you dig up some old windtunnel pictures you will see that in the early 2000s most teams were still using solid metal wheels, maybe with a foam belt around them. The transition started during the michelin-bridgestone tyre war, with the japanese factory being caught on the backfoot and supplying scaled tyres to ferrari only in 2005-2006 iirc.

Supporting the model and measuring aero force and moment is a complex task. how do you tackle it?

-very old school: top vertical strut ("sting") carrying the model without wheels, and wheels connected to 4 separated horizontal struts. balance connected to the sting measures force and moment, sensors on wheel struts add drag of the wheels
-old school: sting hold and measures the model which has wheels connected to it, but without any load transfer between mdel and rolling road
-contemporary school: downforce through the wheels on the rolling road is also measured, but there is still a support sting.
-current school: trade secret - maybe some other posters could shed some light on it

If I am not mistaken, in the windshear 1:1 tunnel that most teams use the balance is placed under the rolling road and the car is kept in postion by cables, with active suspension giving it the correct pitch roll yaw attitude. Probably this is the most modern approach for 60% models also (this is suggested by Amus also, in the sentence about "rich teams using active suspensions")

This brief to highlight that, even if the 60% tyres are the same for all teams, how they are pushed/constrained against the rolling road change the shape of their contact patch, and this have a strong influence on the car's front wing and floor aero performance, because it is that contact patch that influences the properties of the tyre squirt

[PhillipM]

-current school: trade secret - maybe some other posters could shed some light on it

Electric motor in the model and a trailing cable?

[boyracer94]

That's very interesting
...
because it is that contact patch that influences the properties of the tyre squirt.

If only I could upvote posts... some interesting points in there.