McLaren MP4-28 Mercedes

[Huntresa]

... or perhaps more likely an indication of continuing poor rear downforce, a balance problem which would only be further exacerbated by a high efficiency front wing. Until they fix the back, they are unable to put anything better at the front.

Which again – is an indication that the problem is not the front wing – the problem is further back on the car

But couldnt you say the same thing but other way around, since the FW is the part of the car that dictates airflow to begin with, why cant it be the issue of bad stuff happening later on the car ?

[beelsebob]

... or perhaps more likely an indication of continuing poor rear downforce, a balance problem which would only be further exacerbated by a high efficiency front wing. Until they fix the back, they are unable to put anything better at the front.

Which again – is an indication that the problem is not the front wing – the problem is further back on the car

But couldnt you say the same thing but other way around, since the FW is the part of the car that dictates airflow to begin with, why cant it be the issue of bad stuff happening later on the car ?

Because again – they're not changing it. If they felt that all the trouble stemmed from the front wing, they would redesign the front wing. Instead, they clearly feel that it provides all the right airflow to the rear, and produces enough downforce that they need to concentrate on developing other areas.

Combine that with the fact that the front wing worked extremely well on the clearly strongest car of last year, and we see that it's perfectly capable of doing its job.

The front wing is fine, it is not the problem. McLaren have stated already that the problem is to do with the diffuser stalling.

[Huntresa]

Could it have to do with the rear tyres being different this year and that they act differently under pressure during cornering, deforming in a different way then last year ? Pirelli did go out and say that the rears would have bigger aero effect this year then last year.

[beelsebob]

Could it have to do with the rear tyres being different this year and that they act differently under pressure during cornering, deforming in a different way then last year ? Pirelli did go out and say that the rears would have bigger aero effect this year then last year.

To be honest, given that McLaren have already stated exactly what's wrong with the car, I'm surprised you're putting so much effort into trying to figure out other things that could be wrong.

[Huntresa]

Could it have to do with the rear tyres being different this year and that they act differently under pressure during cornering, deforming in a different way then last year ? Pirelli did go out and say that the rears would have bigger aero effect this year then last year.

To be honest, given that McLaren have already stated exactly what's wrong with the car, I'm surprised you're putting so much effort into trying to figure out other things that could be wrong.

Well they said the back of the car no ? I havent read anything else so thats why i asked bout the tyres since its the back of the car and in the way of good aero as we know

[Emerson.F]

Could it have to do with the rear tyres being different this year and that they act differently under pressure during cornering, deforming in a different way then last year ? Pirelli did go out and say that the rears would have bigger aero effect this year then last year.

no it has to do with the front suspension. The pullrod suspension they are using is compromizing their front tyres. Ferrari have solved this by the black tunnel than runs below the nose. It creates more downforce at the front wich make the tyres less likely to be compromized in cornering. The car is also still to stiff.

[wesley123]

Because again – they're not changing it.

You dont do a complete revamp in 2 weeks. Honestly, whether or not the Front wing is the problem, it is something that is something really, really different compared to other teams. Every other team now has 2 sections which cant be adjusted which blend in the center section, giving a bit of a diffuser like inside edge. And that coupled with 1 adjustable flap, or 2 shorter flaps.

McLaren is the only team not to follow this design and still keep a 2010 style front wing. McLaren was also by far the last to design an endplate-less front wing with the outer edge bending down to the footplate. Until the USA gp from last year it was still a 3 plane wing with an end plate attached to it.

If they felt that all the trouble stemmed from the front wing, they would redesign the front wing.

Who said they wont? Since winter testing the Front Wing looks even simpler than it did before.

Combine that with the fact that the front wing worked extremely well on the clearly strongest car of last year, and we see that it's perfectly capable of doing its job.

That the front wing is working well in it's own right, nobody doubted that. But imo it is quite plausible that it does send bad air further down the car. They have changed the higher nose and they now run pull rod, both could be the reason that there isnt a good quality rearward. How do you fix this? Change the front wing. So while the problem is caued by the higher nose and pull rod, the fix lies in the front wing and changing it so that the pull rod and high nose do not screw it up.

The front wing is fine, it is not the problem. McLaren have stated already that the problem is to do with the diffuser stalling.

Which could be indirectly caused by the front end sending crappy air.

I am not saying it is the front wing, I am saying it is plausible, it is a part of the car that is so much different, pretty much 2010 tech, compared to other cars that it is something to take notice of, and by that would be the first part to blame.

[beelsebob]

Could it have to do with the rear tyres being different this year and that they act differently under pressure during cornering, deforming in a different way then last year ? Pirelli did go out and say that the rears would have bigger aero effect this year then last year.

To be honest, given that McLaren have already stated exactly what's wrong with the car, I'm surprised you're putting so much effort into trying to figure out other things that could be wrong.

Well they said the back of the car no ?

They said the diffuser – air detaching from it.

[stefan_]

Bahrain 2013 - Sunday (21.04.2013)

[allstaruk08]

is it my eyes or is there a dip in the floor?

[Pup]

Could it have to do with the rear tyres being different this year and that they act differently under pressure during cornering, deforming in a different way then last year ? Pirelli did go out and say that the rears would have bigger aero effect this year then last year.

Wait, you're suggesting that what could actually be wrong might be exactly what everyone in the pit lane has been saying is wrong?

I don't see the logic in that at all.

no it has to do with the front suspension.

There you go.

This is what makes this place great. Greatest collection of technical minds on the internets.

[Pup]

They said the diffuser – air detaching from it.

Which is an effect not a cause. The cause of the detachment could be any number of things.

[Huntresa]

Could it have to do with the rear tyres being different this year and that they act differently under pressure during cornering, deforming in a different way then last year ? Pirelli did go out and say that the rears would have bigger aero effect this year then last year.

Wait, you're suggesting that what could actually be wrong might be exactly what everyone in the pit lane has been saying is wrong?

I don't see the logic in that at all.

Well i havent been in the pit lane so And neither have i read any articles suggesting it might be the new tyres how they perform during corners and affect aero that way that could be the wrong for Mclaren. So yeah i was just writing what i thought on the top of my head xD

[siwillems]

Could it have to do with the rear tyres being different this year and that they act differently under pressure during cornering, deforming in a different way then last year ? Pirelli did go out and say that the rears would have bigger aero effect this year then last year.

Wait, you're suggesting that what could actually be wrong might be exactly what everyone in the pit lane has been saying is wrong?

I don't see the logic in that at all.

Well i havent been in the pit lane so And neither have i read any articles suggesting it might be the new tyres how they perform during corners and affect aero that way that could be the wrong for Mclaren. So yeah i was just writing what i thought on the top of my head xD

Actually it has been suggested that it could be the tyres which are causing there problems. This years tyres have a very soft wall which has not been accurately reproduced in the 60% tyre model Pirelli supply to the teams for wind tunnel testing. This is resulting in the airflow not behaving as redacted around the diffuser.

It is said that MacLaine now what there problem is which is why they were able to make ground up in china but that they need the three week break before the European races to properly wind tunnel test development parts and then bring a heavily updated car.

[henra]

https://imageshack.us/scaled/large/69/mclr.jpg

That pic looks interesting. It looks like the exhaust plume is at least partly being blown inward. I think I see a slight discolouration on the inside. That's not good and you don't see any of this on the Ferrari (and RB for that matter).
Are the outer edges of the bulge too rounded and the air is being sicked around at least at certain speeds?
Seeing this they might have a slightly less than optimum blowing of the diffuser maybe adding to the diffuser stalling problem they seem to have.

is it my eyes or is there a dip in the floor?

I'm wondering the same. It seems to look that way although that would be really bizzare.