Vodafone McLaren Mercedes 2013

[dave34m]

Does anybody know what happened to tooned-??

Probably back mid-season.

Oh please don't, really didnt enjoy that at all

[beelsebob]

Does anybody know what happened to tooned-??

Probably back mid-season.

Oh please don't, really didnt enjoy that at all

Uhhh… don't watch it then?

[Phil]

Sergio attacking him is called "Racing" Ayrton Senna said that if a gap exists and you don't go for it then you are no longer racing. So i Understand why Sergio went for that corner HOWEVER he did NOT have the space for that move to stick. Jenson defends well he's a Champion he did what you do when some one faster is about to undercut you. So on that contact corner. Yes I agre Sergio should have stepped off the throttle a little bit and waited for the next corner to resume a new attack.

It was a mistake.

IMO - it boils down to that mistake. If that mistake had not been, Button may have battled less ruthlessly, as we have come to expect from him. At least, in the 3 years that he was Lewis' team mate, I can't remember him ever being that ruthless.

That mistake could have ruined his race completely, cause a puncture, break Perez's front wing. It shouldn't have happened, period. It happened because Perez was overenthusiastic going into the corner and didn't account for Buttons speed taking the tighter way into the corner and him coming from the outside on the quicker line.

It reminded me a bit of the Perez in Suzuka last year.

IMO - the team should have intervened, get both to cool down and let the driver through who was quicker and leave it at that. These are important points the team is fighting for IMO. Great entertainment, but not very clever team wise.

[beelsebob]

IMO - it boils down to that mistake. If that mistake had not been, Button may have battled less ruthlessly, as we have come to expect from him. At least, in the 3 years that he was Lewis' team mate, I can't remember him ever being that ruthless.

To be honest, my thinking is that this is for a simple reason – when Hamilton was there, he never really believed he was on level terms. Now he thinks he's number 1, and he needs to prove that. If Perez beats him on the track, that image will erode, so he needed to be ruthless to maintain that image of number 1ness

[Racer X]

IMO - it boils down to that mistake. If that mistake had not been, Button may have battled less ruthlessly, as we have come to expect from him. At least, in the 3 years that he was Lewis' team mate, I can't remember him ever being that ruthless.

That mistake could have ruined his race completely, cause a puncture, break Perez's front wing. It shouldn't have happened, period. It happened because Perez was overenthusiastic going into the corner and didn't account for Buttons speed taking the tighter way into the corner and him coming from the outside on the quicker line.

It reminded me a bit of the Perez in Suzuka last year.

IMO - the team should have intervened, get both to cool down and let the driver through who was quicker and leave it at that. These are important points the team is fighting for IMO. Great entertainment, but not very clever team wise.

Okey so you point out 1 thing about Perez that caused 1 thing from Button.
And then you excuse him with that.

And then you say the team should have maid the slow one let the fast one pass

Sergio was faster but... Well they probably didn't want make Button yield since well he thinks he's number one AND all the RedBull and Mercedes stuff...

If they would have stepped in like you suggest the Tire contact "Susuka" style they had wouldn't have happened.
So button being slower and not letting sergio pass makes it the Teams fault by yore logic.

I say their EVEN my taughts well not really Perez was faster and he did eventually win Jenson only held Sergio back longer then I think from a points and team perspective should have been done.

Also m glad they truly don't keep drivers from racing at McLaren but they should work on Perez's overtaking he had had more then Susuka before incidents where he tried the wrong move.

Button he needs to realize when Speed Racer is going like hell it's okey to not give him the racing line but you can't run some one off track if he does that to another team they will protest. I just hope he doesn't try that on some one else.


Also I would like to NOTE that I never defended Sergio he was doing good before that one corner and after too but when he does screw up sometimes and try's moves that have no dam point in being attempted like at all.

Again I think Sergio should have waited and hunted for another moment when he had more speed.

Button crying to Witmarsh on TV was so funny haha "Dady sergio won't let me have the lead" basicly my summary of events.

And Sergios interview " yes I did all that but he did about the same"


This is actually pretty insightful tells you alot about Sergio Button and maybe Hamilton.

I mean Button is clearly passive agressive and Sergio honest about when he's being agressive and what he messed up in.
We've seen that alot from him when he screws up he admits it and when some one screws him he's very vocal about it but clearly showing his anger.

Not like button who is passive agressive. I hate that kind of people.

I wonder if Hamilon does too?

Also Button will take a shot at you when yore down.
look at his History with Lewis and see. But racing wize buttons amazing he should just idk. Not be so bitchy atleast in public.

[mclaren_mircea]

What do you think about what is happening at Mclaren. Look what Martin said.
"Is there a temptation to focus on 2014 given where you are now?
MW: "There might be in the organisation, but that is one of my flaws - I don't want to go racing when I am not competitive. Maybe that is a character flaw. But I have made it clear since Australia that I do not even want to talk about 2014."

How is that possible that he does not even think about 2014 when Ferrari has Rory Byrne and Mercedes has Geoff Willis working on their 2014 car. After Pat Fry left for Ferrari, Tim Goss took his responsabilities. In the present they are on the same level with Lotus who recognised that they don't have the resources to look for two cars projects, like they did in the past with Pat Fry/ Tim Goss. After Paddy Lowe's departure, Tim Goss took his responsabilities. Mclaren is so weak. They have no top engineers besides Tim Goss and Neil Oatley. I heard a lot about Mclaren's young engineers, but I think that it is an exageration because I haven't found nothing about some one to fill the gap left open by Fry and Lowe's departures. Ferrari and Mercedes are taking new engineers and aerodynamicists in their organisations and Mclaren is a market for everyone who wants to buy some talentated people. Why this difference??? After Fry's departure for Ferrari at Mclaren they weren't talking anymore about two teams for research and developping two different cars. And if you think that Mercedes will not give them enough information about next year engine, given the rumour with Honda? Or Mclaren will not suffer for this?

[Racer X]

Just quickly Before I comment anyone here is this article it updates on the internal situation within McLaren
It's a good read Chek it out.
http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/moto ... 84155.html

[astracrazy]

Or Mclaren will not suffer for this?

Mclaren will be very silly not to look at 2014, some teams started last year (all be it small groups of people). Its calls like that i wonder if MW is the right man for the job.

Perhaps Merc are holding back on some info, but i can't see how they can with a current deal in place. But for sure, if this was the case any team would suffer as they don't know what the are designing around (internal and externally). Some say the Brawn car could of been even better if the didn't have to make all the last minute adjustments to fit another engine in the car.

The future doesn't look bright for Mclaren at the moment. They just lost one of the top drivers and are losing there title sponsorship end of season. The driver they have replaced him with is backed by one of the riches people in the world and mclaren must be looking at his company as a sponsor for next year.

But, Perez isn't performing. His had 3/4 bad races and has been criticized for his driving 2/4. If this ratio of form continues it puts mclaren in a difficult position (driver vs sponsorship)

+ Its been another year where mclaren have started off with a poor car

[mclaren_mircea]

Autosport took an interview with Toto Wolff, and he was saying that by mid-May half of all their resources will be focused for 2014 car. In an interview that SkySports took with Martin Whitmarsh, he was saying that he does not even want to think at 2014, and that they are full focused on this years car. Which is the correct approach? I think Ron Dennis shoul fire this man with all the respect I have for Mclaren.

[Richard]

That is way out of context.

Whitmarsh was asked by a headline chasing journalist if he was going to abandon 2013 and devote everything to 2014. His response was that it was important for him that they developed the 2013 car to get it competitive.

Lets give this reports a sanity check. McLaren, just like every other team, will have a design team focussed on 2014 (and possibly 2015) and a separate design team working on the current car. At this point of the season, the team on the current car will probably be bigger than next years car. Also every TP will have the current car at the forefront of their mind, that's why we see the TP at the pitwall at every race.

So yes, McLaren are in a difficult transition, but lets give it a sanity check without the fan or anti-fan hysteria.

[astracrazy]

well that changes the whole context of the quote mentioned

[mclaren_mircea]

I don't know what is happening at Mclaren, but I'm sick of Martin Whitmarsh and Mr No Grip
So, I'm moving with Hamilton at Mercedes. I can't see anymore Whitmarsh and all his faillures.
So... Mclaren is dead... live Mercedes =D>

[Racer X]

Let's also remember that McLaren has has tested and fixed problems on the MP4-28 with out the use of Wind Tunnel for these parts and used more a common sense and experience approach to all this. They have had success in making the MP4-28 more stable and it has progressed I think it's clear they have identified its problem areas and with out Testing in the wind tunnel only Friday practice tests and I'm assuming at Woking they have utalied their simulator. They have done well but instead have focused on trying to solve all issues when they bring in the package they will use for Spain. So we still have to see if their work will continue to show good results (gradually) I think they have fixed some issues and each time the car looks faster.

Also a team like this can't abandone the season in the 4th race. Be realistic and like Richard said they must have a team Allready thinking about 2014 if they havent already had a team since last year. It's not like people can't work in bits of time on one project and the. Focus 80% or more of their time on the main and currrent project it's McLaren a top team with a huge staff.

[mclaren_mircea]

@Racer X

Mclaren has weaker resources than Red Bull, Mercedes Ferrari. They lost Daimler, they have to pay for the engines, Fry, Lowe and other junior egineers and aerodynamicists left Mclaren in recent years for others team. If Mclaren should have been so strong they would have another person to fill Pat Fry's departure in 2010, or Paddy Lowe's departure. All they could do was to extend Tim Goss's responsabilities in the organisation. I haven't heard nothing about a new person from the organisation to step in Fry or Lowe's place. I didn't heard nothing. All that they have are Oatley and Goss . In recent years they lost so many talentated people to other teams. Daimlers is gone, Vodafone is gone, a lot of people left Mclaren HOW CAN YOU SAY THAT MCLAREN HAS RESOURCES for to alternative progects. Even about their simulator and facilities is a lot of exageration. Their wind tunnel is old (50% scale), and their simulator made 3 dog cars in the last 5 years (2009, 2011, and 2013). How on earth with all that technology they made such a dog car in 2013? Let alone the pull rod and high nose, they said that the car has the same DNA as the mp4-27 only that they raised the nose and adopted pull rod suspension. Yes it's posible that they could get wrong, but no to this extent, it wa s a shock it was terible. Last year's Ferrari was not in such a bad shape like mp4-28, it was sliglty better. Mclaren won nothing from 1998, if you don't take to acount the years 2007-2008 when they supposed to have used intelectual information from Ferrari (Spy gate). I will always remain a Mclaren fan in my heart, even if I stick with Lewis and his new team, but I don't have a real hope for Mclaren

[Racer X]

@McLaren_Mircea

Well the Vodafone Sponsoship leaves this year maybe next year they will find them selves to be in the shoes of say Williams a once great team now in the MidField but this year right now they still have that same sponsorship and does anyone know if they are paying for engines right now?
Or are they GOING to be an engine customer next season. I understand yore one of those fans that when things go bad they switch teams and I don't respect that at all.

If you had any credibility it's gone now, simply put.

But yes next year they might not have a huge sponsor but this season they do and McLaren unlike Sauber or Williams makes its own cars outside of Formula 1 I don't know if you knew there's a company called McLaren Automotive. They also have McLaren Electric. They make different components for NASSCAR and Formula 1 Rally MOTO GP Touring Car and many other racing related Championships they are not just in F1 and while Sponsors bring down their total cost of running a Formula 1 team they also have their own source of income and are a part of the 5 oldest in F1 which also gives them substantial royalties from what the total winnings of F1s commercial deals are not to mention Championship money and the fact they do have other sponsors not just Vodaphone.


That is what Leeds me to believe they do have resources and next season when Vodaphone does leave they will simply line up a new tittle sponsor to pay for the engines and eliminate that cost. They will atleast be looking to cover most of their engine costs.


Potential NEW Tittle sponsors are in the horizon Telmex/Claro Latin American Communications Giants are one top contender.