Team: Tim Goss (director of engineering), Paddy Lowe (TD), Neil Oatley (DRD), Martin Whitmarsh (TP), Jonathan Neale (MD), Sam Michael (SD) Drivers: Jenson Button (5), Sergio Pérez (6)
A place to discuss the characteristics of the cars in Formula One, both current as well as historical. Laptimes, driver worshipping and team chatter do not belong here.
Huntresa wrote:Could it have to do with the rear tyres being different this year and that they act differently under pressure during cornering, deforming in a different way then last year ? Pirelli did go out and say that the rears would have bigger aero effect this year then last year.
I proposed that weeks ago, but we prefer to harp on wings and suspensions and things that just look different. (Admittedly, those topics are much sexier. Then again, rubber can be sexy. Am I revealing too much here?)
grandprix.com wrote:"It has to do with the new Pirelli tyres. They are more angular than in 2012, and then deform differently in the corners, which has a great influence on the aerodynamics.
"Millimetres play a role, but the 60 per cent tyre for the wind tunnel models have led McLaren and Sauber astray," he added.
An unnamed McLaren engineer agreed: "They (the Pirelli tyre models) are much worse than last year."
And this is how such deformation can affect the diffuser:
Mclaren upgrades to the mp4-28 must deliver in Spain. What do you heard about the upgrades for Spain? Is it possible that Mclaren have a bigger upgrade packege than everyone else?
I don't know if it has to be bigger than others' package, but it certainly must work. The fact that they had to play a little bit of catch up doesn't help though.
One thing that I want to see is a multi (as in more than 3) element front wing.
"...and there, very much in flames, is Jacques Laffite's Ligier. That's obviously a turbo blaze, and of course, Laffite will be able to see that conflagration in his mirrors... he is coolly parking the car somewhere safe."Murray Walker, San Marino 1985
mclaren_mircea wrote:Mclaren upgrades to the mp4-28 must deliver in Spain. What do you heard about the upgrades for Spain? Is it possible that Mclaren have a bigger upgrade packege than everyone else?
There will be new wings, sidepods, diffusor, engine cover and suspension geometry according to autosport.
"I started out with nothing and I've still got most of it".
Shakeman wrote:#F1 McLaren updates for Spain: FW, RW, sidepods, deflectors, exhaust, floor, engine cover. Nose stays high & they keep pullrod-front.
Re-tweeted by F1 Fanatic. from Tobias Grüner
That's nearly a new car.
For those who missed this post^
There's your updates, wheather it's all true we'll have to see.
What do you think the change to the deflectors could be?
Could we see either a Ferrari side pod/exhaust layout or a Lotus side pod/exhaust layout?
Well more elements on the FW means better flow management, i would be glad to see a new FW and not cause i think its a problem but cause it means they are actually working hard on everything atm.
stefan_ wrote:One thing that I want to see is a multi (as in more than 3) element front wing.
Why?
I guess because he thinks it looks cool?? Can't think of any logical reasons.
Because it's only a 3 element front wing and, being the first thing that hits the air and shapes the airflow around the rest of the car (starting with the wheels, brake ducts and following to how the air interacts with the bargeboards, sidepods and into the back of the car), there isn't so much airflow separation going on. Of course they have to make a front wing that works with their car/package, but more slots and gaps means more consistant airflow and more consistant downforce that the drivers are looking for.
Have you heard Jenson and Checo complaining about understeer? Yes, you did - one of the problems is the front wing - if it is a not-so-elaborate-as-others-thought front wing, it will not solve the problem even if you add more FW angle.
Hope I was coherent because I just woke up.
"...and there, very much in flames, is Jacques Laffite's Ligier. That's obviously a turbo blaze, and of course, Laffite will be able to see that conflagration in his mirrors... he is coolly parking the car somewhere safe."Murray Walker, San Marino 1985
I still don't understand why certain members of this forum think they can identify an individual aerodynamic device as not working, when it's already been working just fine on cars that were fast enough to win the world championship. The front wing works fine – that's why they're not changing it. Get over it.
Well, the wing is working (it's not like they have a pile of bricks in front of the car), but maybe not at full potential. I don't think that the other top teams (RB, Ferrari, Lotus, Mercedes) are tweaking and changing the front wing all the time for nothing.
Last edited by stefan_ on 23 Apr 2013, 10:04, edited 1 time in total.
"...and there, very much in flames, is Jacques Laffite's Ligier. That's obviously a turbo blaze, and of course, Laffite will be able to see that conflagration in his mirrors... he is coolly parking the car somewhere safe."Murray Walker, San Marino 1985
stefan_ wrote:Well, it's working, but maybe not at full potential. I don't think that the other top teams (RB, Ferrari, Lotus, Mercedes) are tweaking and changing the front wing all the time for nothing.
Had you considered the fact that McLaren are not tweaking it so much as the other top teams may be a strong indication that McLaren are much more happy with their design than the other top teams are with theirs. With that in mind… Why is everyone so focused on the idea that McLaren should switch to the other teams' philosophy?
I'm not saying that they should borrow the philosophy of other teams, but that it's clearly an area that could be exploited more. Maybe there are other issues on the car, who knows. I am curious about what will they bring to Spain.
"...and there, very much in flames, is Jacques Laffite's Ligier. That's obviously a turbo blaze, and of course, Laffite will be able to see that conflagration in his mirrors... he is coolly parking the car somewhere safe."Murray Walker, San Marino 1985
stefan_ wrote:I'm not saying that they should borrow the philosophy of other teams, but that it's clearly an area that could be exploited more.
I don't see that as clear at all (beyond that none of the teams will have found the *perfect* solution for all parts yet, infinite employment theorem and all that). What evidence is there that McLaren's front wing is the area of the car where the most gains can be made? (because that's the important thing). What makes you think that that's the one part that could change the form of the car, and what makes you think that a team of highly skilled aero engineers, with wind tunnels and CFD simulations at their finger tips have not spotted this for the best part of 3 years, but have still managed to push out championship challenging cars, while you have spotted it simply by looking at it and saying "wow, only 3 slots"?
