Help! Carbon Fibre Cwk!

Mikleran · Post 05 Dec 2006, 23:18

Hi!

I'm in Lower Sixth Form doing Physics and i'm doing a coursework on Carbon Fibre in Formula One Cars.

I've been following F1 since i was 7 (first race was Jerez 97

) and i thought that doing CFRP would be an easier alternative to other stuff since i'm interested in it!

I've done the sections on the History of F1 Car Design; the production of PAN; the production of CF from PAN and the different types of weave (thanks to Lukin in this thread for the info!) But i've still got a few things missing...

#1) Does anybody have any detailed stress/strain graphs for Carbon FRP, comparing it to other possible materials to use in F1 Chassis'? I found one from QuakeWrap(?) but it was missing Aluminium!

#2) I found in another thread on here someone talking about possible future materials to be used in formula one. He quoted an article from F1 Racing in June 2006 about Self-Healing Carbon Fibre! I've found enough information about it from the guys at Bristol Uni who are prototyping it for their PHD; but our teacher is insisting that we have a 'variety' of sources for out project- including magazines! I'm not sure if this would be breaking Forum rules but i would be unimagineably grateful if someone could scan in that article for me..?

#3) Multidirectional Carbon Fibre: When the multiple layers of Satin Weave are rotated around facing as many possible directions as possible..?

Thank You guys so much for your posts on this forum.. you've helped me a great deal, even if you don't respond to this! If you do though.. i will be so thankful!

Mikleran

Carlos · Post 06 Dec 2006, 05:17

Yes -- This might be useful -- you should be able to access:
Advanced Composite Structures NASA SP-8108
NASA Space Vehicle Design Criteria

I have a paper copy but no scanning possibilities

From Composite Construction by Jack Lambie
UltimateTensile,MaxCompressive,ModulusofElasticity,Weight.cu.ft
First 3 values PSI
Aluminum30,000/10,000/8.0/165
Kevlar525,000/40,000/19.0/86.4
Carbonfibre130,000/126,000/24.0/100
Graphite360,000/40,000+/19.0/106

Rather difficult entering #'s as I wear Trifocals
Regards Carlos

Carlos · Post 06 Dec 2006, 06:38

Yes -- Just Goggle -- NASA SP 8108

You are correct -- it is old -- but then so am I.

Regards Carlos

Spyker MF1 · Post 06 Dec 2006, 17:38

Sorry about this being off topic but I'm currently in year 11 and hoping to go to sixth form to study physics with a long term goal of getting into F1.

I was jsut wondering is the maths that hard as I had a sixth form day today and the teacher told us the sort of maths we would need to know and it sounded quite basic stuff. Also do you get to do projects etc where I could strongly relate it to F1?

Mikleran · Post 06 Dec 2006, 22:25

I'm doing Maths, Further Maths Physics and Chemistry and can say that some of the maths is much, much more than GCSE Level but it's also interesting.

Don't know if you've heard of it, but i'm No 1 in Britain in Kumon Maths for my age so i've done a fair bit of the AS Course in maths already; my friends who are doing single maths find it a struggle though.

What were you told in the Sixth Form Day?

Stuff in Maths in Sixth Form includes:
Sequences (finding nth values of sequences; using formulae to work out sums of sequences to certain terms etc)
Gradients of Curves
Areas under Graphs
Volumes of Objects with a graphical equation (e.g. Fanta Bottle)
Sin/Cos/Tan; Cosec;Sec;Cot
Various ways of proving things
More Complicated Algebra

There's a lot of new stuff involved in it.

Here's an example of high-level algebra (only one in entire school who got it

) ...

Prove (a^2+b^2)^2 > (a+b+c)(a+b-c)(a-b+c)(b+c-a) for all values of a, b and c.

It's a challenge but actually is only about 5 lines of work once you get it!

RE: F1 Related Projects; The Physics A-Level we do; there's ~ six pieces of coursework. One's on materials (hence me doing CFRP in F1!), and at least one other's on whatever you feel like! Someone last year did 'What affects the downforce on an aerofoil' which seems quite interesting...

RE: F1 Degrees: I'd also love to know about possible degrees relating to Aerodynamics; There's a one year course at Southampton for Race Car Aerodynamics that requires a maths degree before it; and a Aeronautical Engineering course at Imperial (who have access to the Honda Wind Tunnel!), but seem to be more focused around Aeroplane aerodynamics!

PS: If you're doing Chemistry GCSE and are thinking about doing AS-Level; just be in for a shock when they teach you that almost everything at GCSE is a load of rubbish!

RE: SP8108 Thank You very much! Much appreciated!

(One more thing; does anybody have any information/diagrams about cracks in CFRP/how they form/what happens? I noticed other projects on CF which had them but i can't seem to find them...)

Spyker MF1 · Post 06 Dec 2006, 23:16

Cheers for that. It sounds a lot harder on the maths side in physics as the physics teacher told use "you have to be able to add subtract divide and rearrange fractions" lol but I'm still considering it.

We got to use concentarte acid in the chemistry (can't remember what one it was now) and some kid managed to get it on his hand.

TBH I'm struggling with maths at the mo but only since our class got a new teacher

Tom · Post 07 Dec 2006, 00:22

Hi Mikleran,

I'm also doing physics in my last year at school and alot of what you mentioned sounds familiar. I did a project a while ago on Active Suspension (Can anyone tell me how I can post a word document up here) with alot of help from this website and it turned out really well in my opinion.

I'm doing: Maths Physics and Technological Studies with the aim of getting into Motorsport Engineering at Swansea, Bristol or Brunel.

Where abouts are you studying?

Mikleran · Post 07 Dec 2006, 20:06

Hi!

I'm in a Sixth Form school in Cheltenham (? Gold Cup races?) in my penultamate year of school (Uni applications this year

).

Brunel University for Motorsport Engineering looks really cool! I've somehow missed that entirely when looking over the internet for stuff...

The area around Lockerbie's a nice place! I've got a lot of family from around there (I'm actually going there 2 weeks tommorow). Are you doing Sixth year studies then in those subjects?

PS: I know all these requests are mounting up but does anybody have any decent diagrams/explainations about microcracks in FRPs?

Thanks Again!

@Spyker MF1 - For Maths, Physics and Chemistry in AS concentrate on your Maths now.. those three subjects heavily involve the maths. About 1/3 of the chemistry course is calculations involving Gas Volumes at certain temperatures; calculating the strength of acids, finding out how much of a certain chemical is given off when reacted with certain amounts of other chemicals etc etc.. Maths is the key!

Carlos · Post 11 Dec 2006, 02:38

RE: CFRP-- Fissures and Repair Information Query -- Yes.

Mikleran · Post 25 Feb 2007, 02:05

Well Thanks for all your help guys! Some of the things you posted really helped, and other topics i found on the search had some great info (I think i got a link to the Japanese Carbon Fibre Manufacturers website from here). I got 36/40 for the coursework, so it went well!

Thanks Again!