McLaren MP4-28 Mercedes

[ringo]

Adam Cooper ‏@adamcooperf1 40m
Martin Whitmarsh confirmed that McLaren did not use the new front wing today because the team was not confident in its legality

Adam Cooper ‏@adamcooperf1 39m
Basically McLaren was not able to test it on the FIA scrutineering rig and thus could not be 100% sure it would pass post qualifying

Is that just spin? Spin from McLaren because their update simply haven't worked. There was no evidence that the new front wing made much difference. I'm getting tired of the whiny Button.

Gary Anderson pointed out how relatively simple the McLaren front wing is compared to the rest of the leading team, less elements the less the front wing can influence the airflow to the rest of the car. To an untrained eye the McLaren front wing does look less developed than the top tier.

A front wing is not the fix. Mclaren aren't so slow to not pick up on it if it was the one thing to blame.
They got a Quasimodo chassis, one born screwed up. They know all they have is band-aids to look forward to.

The philosophy was wrong, it works in an ideal world, but it doesn't work in reality. The engineers went beyond their limits of knowledge on the basis of the design. It's like only being aware of Newtonian mechanics and using that to design a light speed space ship. very good idea, innovative and groundbreaking, Yep works out well on paper and makes sense.
Then you build the thing, then realize it doesn't work. You don't know why there's no correlation. Little did you know there's something called quantum mechanics, which should have been the foundation for a design of such proportions and ambitions.

So this car, for what it was trying to achieve, simply was designed in ignorance. Not saying the engineers are stupid. But they overreached; going for something that is pretty progressive, but they lack knowledge on some kind of phenomenon that occurs in the domain of where they took the design of the car.
They don't know what that is right now, they may learn of it in future, and maybe use this same philosophy later down with their newly acquired knowledge.
But as is it, the car is beyond them, it's ahead of it's time and hence is as useful as a dishwasher in the stone age.

[Neno]

rhingo, ofcourse it is. they didnt built high chassis about 2 decades... they sticked with low profile nose and chassis for a long long time, as they never learned something new. why do you think they have ride-height problems? because car is working good when is low (that is how they built last 10 cars...), when is high something dose not work as they dont understand why. they dont have correlation problems, because Mclaren probably have/use best wind tunnel in F1 with Red Bull, but they lack knowledge of what they built, which is more extreme because they on purpouse maked their life harder in using another thing about who they dont understand, pull-rod. It's like you gave me 2 box of diffirent puzzles and mixed them together...

[henra]

Spain 2013 - Friday (10.05.2013)
https://imageshack.us/scaled/large/32/rwmcl.jpg

Hmmm, that still looks like the exhaust plume is largely blown inward instead of straight back downward to the diffuser edge. (Or is it flow viz? But to mee it looks more like exhaust gases)

I still have the feeling that the very rounded edge of the exhaust bulge (when looking from above) isn't doing them any good.
Looks like air is sucked around the bulge and blows the exhaust gases to the center of the car. (The bulge for the engine directly next to the exhaust channel might contribute to the problem by creating a low pressure zone close to the exhaust path and on the inner side of it).
This combined with a rather obstructed coke bottle might still be one of their core problems. That is at least my feeling.
I'm still not convinced it is really a suspension thing.

[Tim.Wright]

A front wing is not the fix. Mclaren aren't so slow to not pick up on it if it was the one thing to blame.
They got a Quasimodo chassis, one born screwed up. They know all they have is band-aids to look forward to.

The philosophy was wrong, it works in an ideal world, but it doesn't work in reality. The engineers went beyond their limits of knowledge on the basis of the design. It's like only being aware of Newtonian mechanics and using that to design a light speed space ship. very good idea, innovative and groundbreaking, Yep works out well on paper and makes sense.
Then you build the thing, then realize it doesn't work. You don't know why there's no correlation. Little did you know there's something called quantum mechanics, which should have been the foundation for a design of such proportions and ambitions.

So this car, for what it was trying to achieve, simply was designed in ignorance. Not saying the engineers are stupid. But they overreached; going for something that is pretty progressive, but they lack knowledge on some kind of phenomenon that occurs in the domain of where they took the design of the car.
They don't know what that is right now, they may learn of it in future, and maybe use this same philosophy later down with their newly acquired knowledge.
But as is it, the car is beyond them, it's ahead of it's time and hence is as useful as a dishwasher in the stone age.

wtf did I just read?

[CottrellGP]

Not sure if this is true or now... and im not sure if it has been mentioned before but here! http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/news/form ... 59164.html

[Huntresa]

Not sure if this is true or now... and im not sure if it has been mentioned before but here! http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/news/form ... 59164.html

5 or 6 posts above m8

[Shakeman]

Not sure if this is true or now... and im not sure if it has been mentioned before but here! http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/news/form ... 59164.html

I think it's BS.

McLaren can make a curved floor to a tolerance of 1mm over its length, I think the can put together a compliant front wing. The wing didn't work.

[wesley123]

Remember how Ferrari last year made a wing that just flexed way too much(whether it was a design fault or not). It is pretty plausible that they tried to edge the limit of the rules with the front wing, but were afraid that it would exceed it.

I'd say a team would be more happy with 4th and 5th than with 2nd or 3rd and after that get disqualified because the wing flexed to much for example.

[munudeges]

The problem is that they are unlikely to even be fourth or fifth. There's too much caution there and they're not in a position to be cautious.

[CottrellGP]

Are they lacking behind the teams like, RB, Ferrari, Lotus and Mercedes with the multi-element front wing? A couple of the teams i mentioned have been using the curvey/multi element front wings for years and the McLaren wing looks pretty much the same every year.

[Pup]

So, have we seen this mystery wing? I thought it was the one that Perez tried yesterday, but Autosport says it was a wing that had been FedExed in for P3.

[Owen.C93]

So, have we seen this mystery wing? I thought it was the one that Perez tried yesterday, but Autosport says it was a wing that had been FedExed in for P3.

Doubt that's the case. They wouldn't bring 2 fair substantial front wing changes to a race that were that different.

[NoDivergence]

Wrong, since this years tires are faster. So you have to still compare to the front runners. Very very far behind

[Coefficient]

Adam Cooper ‏@adamcooperf1 40m
Martin Whitmarsh confirmed that McLaren did not use the new front wing today because the team was not confident in its legality

Adam Cooper ‏@adamcooperf1 39m
Basically McLaren was not able to test it on the FIA scrutineering rig and thus could not be 100% sure it would pass post qualifying

Is that just spin? Spin from McLaren because their update simply haven't worked. There was no evidence that the new front wing made much difference. I'm getting tired of the whiny Button.

Gary Anderson pointed out how relatively simple the McLaren front wing is compared to the rest of the leading team, less elements the less the front wing can influence the airflow to the rest of the car. To an untrained eye the McLaren front wing does look less developed than the top tier.

Mclaren's updated front wing looks very similar to the front wing used on last year's Williams at the Spanish grand prix which pastor won. It's not the number of elements, it's what you're trying to achieve with them. Less elements can produce more peak downfield but also can be prone to stalling. If you're front wing is stalling all the downstream aero will fail too. Perhaps they are struggling in that area.

They just haven't got there sums right this year.

[Shakeman]

Adam Cooper ‏@adamcooperf1 40m
Martin Whitmarsh confirmed that McLaren did not use the new front wing today because the team was not confident in its legality

Adam Cooper ‏@adamcooperf1 39m
Basically McLaren was not able to test it on the FIA scrutineering rig and thus could not be 100% sure it would pass post qualifying

Is that just spin? Spin from McLaren because their update simply haven't worked. There was no evidence that the new front wing made much difference. I'm getting tired of the whiny Button.

Gary Anderson pointed out how relatively simple the McLaren front wing is compared to the rest of the leading team, less elements the less the front wing can influence the airflow to the rest of the car. To an untrained eye the McLaren front wing does look less developed than the top tier.

Mclaren's updated front wing looks very similar to the front wing used on last year's Williams at the Spanish grand prix which pastor won. It's not the number of elements, it's what you're trying to achieve with them. Less elements can produce more peak downfield but also can be prone to stalling. If you're front wing is stalling all the downstream aero will fail too. Perhaps they are struggling in that area.

They just haven't got there sums right this year.

It's not just the number of planes the wing has but the number of vortex generators and slot gaps. This was particularly evident on the new RB wing which looked in a different era to the current McLaren design.

Their floor is stalling and they've got zero drive out of low speed corners so it Coulthard picked up on that latter point while commentating on JBs qually lap.