Pirelli says it will help bring back boring processions

[Jersey Tom]

I mean, de-lamination is a consequence of a cut in the tyre

Not true.

Or they could drive with the tires they have. The same way they build the engines with the fuel allowed.

Except the fuel doesn't dissolve the engine as you race.

Personally, I feel like (a) don't make a huge change mid season. Let it ride on out. (b) I'd bet with some confidence that Pirelli can't make Bridgestone-esque tires, and their statement about bringing back boring racing is.. a bit off in that regard (c) The real problem - for YEARS - is lack of parity in the field. Could stand to be addressed. Garbage tires are just a crutch to that. (d) Full course cautions would IMO make for more interesting pit strategy and appropriate influence of tires, rather than the current situation.

[Bazza]

Its like the many people watching who are saying they don't like the current solution are being held ransom by the fact that at some point in the past the races were more processional via Ferrari/Schumi.

Its pretty much admitting that they have no other ideas or plan of doing things.

"At some point in the past" is a bit vague. "It was rubbish most of the time" is probably closer to the truth.

While F1 has made significant improvements to the racing over the last decade, the fact is that the only racing less exciting than F1, is F1 from a decade ago. We've gone from complete procession to somewhat unpredictable procession (top 5 are sorted by half race distance), and while that's definitely an improvement, don't go praising your particular diety claiming it's the best thing since sliced bread, or claim, heaven/s forbid, that it's actually good racing.

These are things from other, more exciting, racing series:

Pack racing (NOT a train, but 2-wide through corners in groups)
Close, nail-biting finishes, where the winner is still unknown on the start of the last lap
Most of the cars on the lead lap by the end
Nose-to-tail racing, with mere meters between 2 cars for over a lap
Sticking it up the inside, 2 wheels off the track in order to just squeeze through for the pass.

None of those are something that happen on a regular basis in F1. The aero doesn't permit pack racing apparently, the races don't result in close finishes, the tiny field can't even keep itself close in terms of performance, and the cars are too stiffly sprung to attack curbs that everyone else hops over.

There's still a lot to be done before an F1 race itself can be called exciting.

[Redragon]

My concern is the de-laminations.

Imagine an incident like that happening through 130R or Eau Rouge, it doesnt take a wild imagination to understand that these failures must not happen again!

Isn't this the same scenario that a driver would suffer a puncture in 130R or Eau Rouge? I mean, de-lamination is a consequence of a cut in the tyre, which previously would have led to a puncture, but now with the new structure the result is de-lamination.

I doubt that this is the explanation. It is the steel band construction that leads to this sudden delamination due to overheating / internal layer separation. After the failure it is relative safe because only the treads flys away but the tyre stays relatively inflated.

And thanks to that inner internal layer, Alonso could finish the spanish grad prix. Confirmed by Pirelli on BBC if he was using 2012 tyres Alonso race would have been over when puncture ocurred. So it is safe after all.

[TzeiTzei]

My concern is the de-laminations.

Imagine an incident like that happening through 130R or Eau Rouge, it doesnt take a wild imagination to understand that these failures must not happen again!

Isn't this the same scenario that a driver would suffer a puncture in 130R or Eau Rouge? I mean, de-lamination is a consequence of a cut in the tyre, which previously would have led to a puncture, but now with the new structure the result is de-lamination.

I doubt that this is the explanation. It is the steel band construction that leads to this sudden delamination due to overheating / internal layer separation. After the failure it is relative safe because only the treads flys away but the tyre stays relatively inflated.

Have we had any delamination on tyres which have not been cut?

I mean, de-lamination is a consequence of a cut in the tyre

Not true.

So, what is the reason then?

[Mandrake]

If Hembrey really thinks that more stable tyres (or tires that behave like tires and not like random chewing gum) would benefit one team and let them run away with the title, does he not have too much influence on F1?

I mean, regardless who is the one benefitting, should the one and only tire manufacturer be able to influence a season that much? If he wants a different winner than last seasons, he just lets develop tires which do not withstand hard treatment (from aerodynamical performance or mechanical superiority) to hamper certain teams more than others?

McLaren used to be king of mechanical grip, Merc are very very strong with mechanical grip this season, even they are hampered by tires falling off too quickly.

Hembrey, if he really acts as he speaks, is basically making his own championship with the winner he likes to see?

[bhall]

[Redragon]

If Hembrey really thinks that more stable tyres (or tires that behave like tires and not like random chewing gum) would benefit one team and let them run away with the title, does he not have too much influence on F1?

I mean, regardless who is the one benefitting, should the one and only tire manufacturer be able to influence a season that much? If he wants a different winner than last seasons, he just lets develop tires which do not withstand hard treatment (from aerodynamical performance or mechanical superiority) to hamper certain teams more than others?

McLaren used to be king of mechanical grip, Merc are very very strong with mechanical grip this season, even they are hampered by tires falling off too quickly.

Hembrey, if he really acts as he speaks, is basically making his own championship with the winner he likes to see?

Mandrake I think you should read carefully what he says. He doesn't say the tyres of this year are designed to have a different winner. What he says, it is if they do the changes that one team mainly is complaining about will only benefict that team. In this case Redbull. http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/news/form ... 56987.html

[Redragon]

Et-voila!
Hot from the owen, changes will be made. After meeting of Redbull owner with Bernie for 40min after spanish grand prix there is a completely change on Pirelli actitude, how weird?

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/news/form ... 12886.html

[Richard]

I agree, this place has become Pirelli-Crash.net.

I minded to to do some pruning, especially of the car threads

[jenseneverest]

It is absolutly fundamental to motor racing that cars drive flat out. How can it be a race otherwise?
I would sooner watch Shumi flat out, leading from start to finish and lapping most of the field.
100 million pound cars driving around like milk floats because there tyres are not up to the job is not racing. It is tyre management and f**cking boring.
For the last 2 decades F1 has been about downforce. For years now, more downforce would mean faster corner speed, harder braking and as a result a faster lap time. Now because tyres cant last 2 laps at full speed with 2013 rubber there is no point in having a car with a lot of downforce. These tyre have completly changed F1. It is an absolute joke. I would soon watch kids in karts, at least they are flat out.

[Neno]

It is absolutly fundamental to motor racing that cars drive flat out. How can it be a race otherwise?
I would sooner watch Shumi flat out, leading from start to finish and lapping most of the field.
100 million pound cars driving around like milk floats because there tyres are not up to the job is not racing. It is tyre management and f**cking boring.
For the last 2 decades F1 has been about downforce. For years now, more downforce would mean faster corner speed, harder braking and as a result a faster lap time. Now because tyres cant last 2 laps at full speed with 2013 rubber there is no point in having a car with a lot of downforce. These tyre have completly changed F1. It is an absolute joke. I would soon watch kids in karts, at least they are flat out.

Well Marrusia and Caterham would lap a field then Then something is wrong with your teory

[Nomore]

Et-voila!
Hot from the owen, changes will be made. After meeting of Redbull owner with Bernie for 40min after spanish grand prix there is a completely change on Pirelli actitude, how weird?

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/news/form ... 12886.html

@Redragon

I read also that news yesterday. It is sad because that will influence the championship and we will end up with a unfair and illegal championship for those who worked for all these months in the compound of tires.

I have the impression that till B.Eccleston is in F1, Ferrari is not allowed to win the Championship, or at least he will do everything to stop it, so the true battle is between Bernie Ecclestone and Ferrari. Thats why there is a huge tension between Montezemolo and Ecclestone. And this will end up with Bernie leaving or Ferrari leaving.

If is Ferrari to leave formula 1 (99.99 it will not happen but..), and personally it will be interesting to watch how Ferrari will evolve without f1, and how F1 will evolve without Ferrari.

Creating a new series or migrating to a new category...from a Ferrari fan point of view im bored to see them in F1 personally i like changes, i like evolution. I will like to see a series with all the big constructors Ferrari, Mercedes, Renault, BMW, Honda;Toyota...etc competing in engine, mechanical parts, a free technology era...and not just some exhaust and wings and tire debate.
This probably will never happen...and i'm dreaming...but hope dies last

[Richard]

There's too much tyre talk in too many places and the pejorative title on this one isn't helping. I've moved some of the better posts to the Pirelli thread.

As for cars driving at 100% That's never happened. Spain 1986 is a good example of Senna (yes he) driving in fuel and tyre saving mode (yes even the mesiah partook of the henious habit) while being chased by Mansell who was faster thanks to an extra stop for fresh tyres. That is now hailed as one of the great races

You can also refer to Germany 1955 to find God (aka Fangio) doing the same thing. Another great race according to the history books.

Blasphemy!

May this thread rest in peace.