McLaren MP4-28 Mercedes

[mclaren_mircea]

Ok, thanks for the answer
But is is possible to use it on a street-race and low speed-corners like Monaco the same front wing without modifications which was supposed to be used on a circuit like Montmello? It must be clear difference between DF levels that that car needs. Am I wrong? I'm just an amateur not an engineer or some one qualified in this domain

[turbof1]

Yeah, but they verified that there were indeed two new front wings in Barcelona. One which we saw, with the white endplates; and another which was FedExed in on Saturday morning. They only ran the white one once with Perez and the second never left the garage.

If I am correct, there is no difference between the 2. The white one was simply rapid-prototyped because they could not get a carbon fibe one in time prepared to ship out, while the second one was the carbon fibre version, the one we are seeing here.

Ok, thanks for the answer
But is is possible to use it on a street-race and low speed-corners like Monaco the same front wing without modifications which was supposed to be used on a circuit like Montmello? It must be clear difference between DF levels that that car needs. Am I wrong? I'm just an amateur not an engineer or some one qualified in this domain

They'll run a higher AoA to get more DF out of it. Usually for Monaco they don't change the front wing itself, but run the flap with a much more agressive angle. Only for high speed, low downforce circuits they'll alter the FW (removing elements).

[Pup]

It's possible. Whitmarsh's comments made it sound like a different design, but a slight one...

Jenson Button's Spanish Grand Prix hopes rest on a 1,000-mile race across Europe between a van and a plane.

After the disappointing debut of McLaren's radical re-design here saw their cars end Friday practice a distant 12th and 13th, two new front-wing designs are being rushed from the team's Woking HQ to the scene of the fifth round of the world championship.

"One nose is in a van coming out on a non-stop, 12-hour overnight drive. The other will be on a light aircraft out of Southend - probably at 3 o' clock in the morning - because it's a 24-hour airport," said team boss Martin Whitmarsh.

"I've told the engineers, 'Let's not just play, let's be a bit bolder, try and exploit it and we have to hope for that eureka moment in final practice Saturday.' We are just one per cent off where we should be, but that's night and day in F1."

Well, I suppose he boldly decided to not run them.

Update - this seems to answer the question...

Gary Anderson said that the wing that was flown in had more "flexibility", which I assume is in wing angles and not actual flex, though who knows with the whole FIA test excuse...

[turbof1]

I was thinking along that way. I am not sure what material the white one is, but based on previous occasions, I think it is titanium, which obviously flexes different then carbon fibre. That'll probably be the "difference".

[Pup]

Or maybe since all the wings that weekend were so similar, they painted the endplates different colors so they could quickly tell them apart.

Sort of like how all the suspension parts now probably have little "this way up" arrows.

[turbof1]

That's not really mclaren their style to do . Ron Dennis would have ranted about it for ages to come.

[mclaren_mircea]

@turbof1
cheers man =D> You really know very much about technical details

@Pup
cheers man for you too about the technical knowledge BUT also because your passion about Mclaren

I really have something to learn from both of you

[stefan_]

Monaco 2013 - Wednesday (22.05.2013)

[trinidefender]

I was thinking along that way. I am not sure what material the white one is, but based on previous occasions, I think it is titanium, which obviously flexes different then carbon fibre. That'll probably be the "difference".

While this may be true it is not the only way. Carbon would still be lighter than titanium, especially for a non structural component. There are many ways you can control the force required to flex carbon 'x' amount of millimetres. Some of these ways are: the number of layers of carbon, the type of carbon strands used, any materials mixed in with the carbon, such as Kevlar or Mylar, the way the carbon strands are arranged (the pattern you see when you look at bare carbon), how thick each strand of carbon is and last but not least the type and amount of resin used to bond the carbon.

Source; grew up building, fixing and sailing boats. Most work was fibreglass but with some carbon experience.

[trinidefender]

Also one more note about carbon is that people have the misconception that visible carbon is lighter than painted carbon. This is false as the paint protects the carbon, when the carbon is left unpainted, it has to have extra layers of resin placed over it to protect it and stop it absorbing water. Resin is very heavy and as a result creates a situation where painted carbon fibre ends up lighter than unpainted.

[turbof1]

I was thinking along that way. I am not sure what material the white one is, but based on previous occasions, I think it is titanium, which obviously flexes different then carbon fibre. That'll probably be the "difference".

While this may be true it is not the only way. Carbon would still be lighter than titanium, especially for a non structural component. There are many ways you can control the force required to flex carbon 'x' amount of millimetres. Some of these ways are: the number of layers of carbon, the type of carbon strands used, any materials mixed in with the carbon, such as Kevlar or Mylar, the way the carbon strands are arranged (the pattern you see when you look at bare carbon), how thick each strand of carbon is and last but not least the type and amount of resin used to bond the carbon.

Source; grew up building, fixing and sailing boats. Most work was fibreglass but with some carbon experience.

You missed the point: titanium is a material used when rapid prototyping. My theory is that they simply couldn't get the new wing (in carbon fibre) ready in time for friday, so they had to use rapid prototyping to get a FW out in the field to test it, while the carbon fibre one was finished and flew over to Spain. The undesirable effect was that it because it was made out of titanium, it was heavier (like you said), but also flexes less or different then one made out carbon fibre composition. In other words, it was not on purpose they choosed to make the white FW out of titanium, but out of necessity to get something out there to test.

[trinidefender]

I was thinking along that way. I am not sure what material the white one is, but based on previous occasions, I think it is titanium, which obviously flexes different then carbon fibre. That'll probably be the "difference".

While this may be true it is not the only way. Carbon would still be lighter than titanium, especially for a non structural component. There are many ways you can control the force required to flex carbon 'x' amount of millimetres. Some of these ways are: the number of layers of carbon, the type of carbon strands used, any materials mixed in with the carbon, such as Kevlar or Mylar, the way the carbon strands are arranged (the pattern you see when you look at bare carbon), how thick each strand of carbon is and last but not least the type and amount of resin used to bond the carbon.

Source; grew up building, fixing and sailing boats. Most work was fibreglass but with some carbon experience.

You missed the point: titanium is a material used when rapid prototyping. My theory is that they simply couldn't get the new wing (in carbon fibre) ready in time for friday, so they had to use rapid prototyping to get a FW out in the field to test it, while the carbon fibre one was finished and flew over to Spain. The undesirable effect was that it because it was made out of titanium, it was heavier (like you said), but also flexes less or different then one made out carbon fibre composition. In other words, it was not on purpose they choosed to make the white FW out of titanium, but out of necessity to get something out there to test.

That could be true however you also have to remember that they intentionally build the wings to flex. It appears to me that they were trying to make the wing flex as much as possible while still being legal. The way I look at it is that they were not sure exactly if the wing would pass the load flex test so they simply decided not to run it

[turbof1]

That could be true however you also have to remember that they intentionally build the wings to flex. It appears to me that they were trying to make the wing flex as much as possible while still being legal. The way I look at it is that they were not sure exactly if the wing would pass the load flex test so they simply decided not to run it

Yes, if I am right they were trying to get the carbon fibre one to pass the test, which they never got the chance too.

The titanium one was never intended to run in the qualy or race, just in friday free practice to get some data. It's all about the carbon fibre one. They could have rig tested the titanium in time, but that would have been useless.

[Pup]

Why again do we think this wing was made of titanium?

[turbof1]

Why again do we think this wing was made of titanium?

Rapid prototyping and a person very fanatically holding on to his story .

I could be wrong about that for the record. Back in 2011 Australia, mclaren rapid prototyped their complete diffuser out of titanium. It had the same white color, but of course doesn't mean automatically the FW in barcelona is made out of titanium. That it was rapid protoyped, that I'm quite convinced of.