Silly Season 2013/14

[myurr]

2011 RBR car was amazingly quick but required a very specific driving style to make the most of the blown diffuser. This played to Vettel's strengths and against Mark's. Whenever the effects of the blown diffuser have been reduced, for whatever reason, you usually see Mark being a lot closer to Vettel. The latter still has the edge but it's much closer.

I don't know if Button would have been able to adapt to that style of driving but it's not as clear cut as him beating Webber in the championship.

Either way next years car should be making even less usage of the exhaust gasses to generate downforce, so things should be returning towards the more traditional driving styles.

[LionKing]

2011 RBR car was amazingly quick but required a very specific driving style to make the most of the blown diffuser. This played to Vettel's strengths and against Mark's. Whenever the effects of the blown diffuser have been reduced, for whatever reason, you usually see Mark being a lot closer to Vettel. The latter still has the edge but it's much closer.

I really don't think that the EBD car made a lot of difference in that respect. In 2009, Vettel came straight into Webber's team and that year he outqualified his teammate 15-2. And 2009 is long before the blown exhaust concept. In 2011 qualy was 16-3...

McLaren car also had EBD in 2011. They even tried very complicated octopus exhaust in the preseason but settled for a traditional one...

[beelsebob]

2011 RBR car was amazingly quick but required a very specific driving style to make the most of the blown diffuser. This played to Vettel's strengths and against Mark's. Whenever the effects of the blown diffuser have been reduced, for whatever reason, you usually see Mark being a lot closer to Vettel. The latter still has the edge but it's much closer.

I really don't think that the EBD car made a lot of difference in that respect. In 2009, Vettel came straight into Webber's team and that year he outqualified his teammate 15-2. And 2009 is long before the blown exhaust concept. In 2011 qualy was 16-3...

McLaren car also had blown exhausts in 2011. They even tried very complicated octopus exhaust in the preseason but settled for a traditional one...

It actually turns out the "octopus" was no where near as complicated as is made out – it was very similar in fact to red bull's solution, but potentially put more exhaust down the slot. The idea was to cut a slit into the floor from the rear wheels running forwards. The exhaust was hidden in a ramp inside the side pods, and flattened out into a nozzle just above and to the side of the slit. This avoided the rules about only ever seeing the sky or the floor from under the car.

[WhiteBlue]

"At Red Bull they want me, but I have other choices -- so time will tell."

So we have it from the horse's mouth so to speak. Mateschitz wants a Seb/Kimi pairing. And indeed he would be badly advised if he would repeat the same mistake he did in 2001 (story) when he picked Bernoldi over Kimi.

In a corner of my heart I'm actually a bit curious if Kimi would go back to Ferrari just to show Montezemolo the errors of his ways and beat Alonso. But then it is probably not worth the hassle. Ferrari seem to have ever higher hurdles to building the best car and developing it fastest.

At the same time Red Bull Technologies have shown surprising success with their business model and they are incredibly adept at playing the rule making game. Just have a look how they emerged from tyregate 2013 and how quickly they got on top of the Kevlar tyres at the Nürburgring. There must be a huge temptation to drive Adrian's cars in a team where he is the sovereign ruler in his own company. Ron always had him run under committee orders. Didi has unleashed Adrian's full potential. For me he is now on top of his game and it will be hard to beat him next year. Food for Kimi's thoughts I reckon.

[antsyd]

Im starting to think Kimi is the best option.

Would DR or JV have finished in 7th position yesterday had they of been in Webbers situation being almost 2 laps down?

I dont think so but I think Kimi would have.

[CHT]

"At Red Bull they want me, but I have other choices -- so time will tell."

So we have it from the horse's mouth so to speak. Mateschitz wants a Seb/Kimi pairing. And indeed he would be badly advised if he would repeat the same mistake he did in 2001 (story) when he picked Bernoldi over Kimi.

In a corner of my heart I'm actually a bit curious if Kimi would go back to Ferrari just to show Montezemolo the errors of his ways and beat Alonso. But then it is probably not worth the hassle. Ferrari seem to have ever higher hurdles to building the best car and developing it fastest.

At the same time Red Bull Technologies have shown surprising success with their business model and they are incredibly adept at playing the rule making game. Just have a look how they emerged from tyregate 2013 and how quickly they got on top of the Kevlar tyres at the Nürburgring. There must be a huge temptation to drive Adrian's cars in a team where he is the sovereign ruler in his own company. Ron always had him run under committee orders. Didi has unleashed Adrian's full potential. For me he is now on top of his game and it will be hard to beat him next year. Food for Kimi's thoughts I reckon.

I actually think Adrian newey success coulld also be due to renault engine because they are much more fuel efficient than Ferrari and Merc. I hope FIA could reveal the actually fuel consumption and power figures after this season.

2014 should give Ferrari and Merc a chance catch up and hopefully Mclaren in 2015 with Honda engine

[SectorOne]

It´s quite interesting with the engines. Like Germany.

Only qualifying was not taken by a Renault engine.
fastest lap, winner, podium, best tire life/performance all came from Renaults yesterday.

Edit: sorry fastest lap was by Alonso,

[WhiteBlue]

fastest lap,... came from Renaults yesterday.

I seem to remember that Alonso had fastest lap with 1:33.468 in lap 51. Can't imagine they gave him a Renault engine for his Ferrari. Perhaps my memory fades already.


I looked it up for convenience

[Juzh]

I actually think Adrian newey success coulld also be due to renault engine because they are much more fuel efficient than Ferrari and Merc.

Renault is also the weakest of the 3. You forgot about that? It took a rocketship in the form of RB7 and virually zero wing to actually win in monza. Even the mighty RB6 could not match top end power of the mercs and ferrari.

[Phil]

The only other drivers beating their team mate to relatively similar degree as Button is beating Perez is Alonso over Massa, and Hulkenburg over Gutierrez. Not entirely sure what you are basing these assumptions on, it certainly can't be the points.

People are easy to forget that Lewis Hamilton didn't at any point embarrass Jenson during their 3 year tenure at Macca - despite everyone saying he otherwise.

That logic isn't really sound IMO. There is far more to a battle between drivers than just points. Points can be a hollow victory if you gain them by lucky strategy or race fortune. Now, I'm not saying that Button is "lucking" into anything - he's a brilliant consistant driver when the car he has works to his strengths - but Perez has been showing some very strong driving during the race. Button was able to compensate a lot of points against Lewis while they were team-mates with intelligent and consistant driving. With Lewis as his team-mate, no one *really* expected him to outshine Lewis.

With Perez joining Button, it's the other way around. Perez is the newcomer, the young gun and surely Button is feeling more pressure against his younger team-mate, feeling that he should be the clear pacesetter. Buttons frustration towards his team-mate in past races underline this.

I do think Button might be thinking about a possible seat at Redbull - perhaps thinking that while he would clearly join that team with no one expecting him to outshine Vettel, he could surprise a few with his consistant less-erratic driving, the way he did when he joined McLaren. It's easier to be on top of your game if you're in a solid quick car than a troubling one too. McLaren might have a lot of heritage, but with the new engine deal 2015, losing Vodaphone and technical staff (Loewe), there are a lot of unknowns looking into the future.

Anyone would be a fool to not consider it, with or without Vettel as your team-mate. Besides, Vettel might be leaving eventually too (he only extended his contract by one year).

As for the points - it's easier to pull a double-points lead if you've been fighting for the last scraps of points and have the occasional good result. I think their race-pace has been a lot closer than what the points are suggesting.

In Joe Sawards blog article about the soon to be vanct Redbull seat, he didn't mention Button at all, so perhaps it will be down to Kimi and Ricciardo after all. I actually would love to see Kimi in that 2nd seat.

[Phil]

I don't think Vettel could reconcile with Raikkonen, or any other driver, being quicker and were that to happen then we could see some toys being thrown out of the pram. Being a 3, or probably 4, time world champion he won't be okay with playing second fiddle.

I agree. But I also think Vettel only signing a one year extension to his contract puts some doubts over Vettels long-term commitment. The thinking at Redbull must be - if Vettel does indeed leave eventually for a possible Ferrari seat, why shouldn't they already start investing in another good driver to assess their options? There's a possibility that Redbull might not be as dominant come next year, so their seat might not be as desirable as it is now.

[turbof1]

It's difficult to see Raikkonen not being in that seat. Vettel surely can't expect from red bull that they hire a driver of lesser capabilities? On top of all, Raikkonen isn't someone who complains quickly. Certainly a teamplayer.

Ultimately, If vettel even has problems with kimi being his team"mate", red bull should disregard vettel's influence. There is no better driver then raikkonen who can get free from contracts next year. Any other option clearly should only be considered if raikkonen decides not to go to red bull. From there you have a multitude of options and in that situation you could allow vettel to have some influence on the choice.

[WhiteBlue]

I don't think Vettel could reconcile with Raikkonen, or any other driver, being quicker and were that to happen then we could see some toys being thrown out of the pram. Being a 3, or probably 4, time world champion he won't be okay with playing second fiddle.

I think that Vettel will not throw the toys as you said, at least I expect him to show a lot more dignity than Alonso in 2007. Vettel has nicely matured over the last three years and IMO he does not deserve the permanent negative judgement that I seem to read in every single post that you do on him. Perhaps a slightly more balanced opinion would also be more convincing.

I agree. But I also think Vettel only signing a one year extension to his contract puts some doubts over Vettels long-term commitment. The thinking at Redbull must be - if Vettel does indeed leave eventually for a possible Ferrari seat, why shouldn't they already start investing in another good driver to assess their options? There's a possibility that Redbull might not be as dominant come next year, so their seat might not be as desirable as it is now.

Kimi is two years older than Alonso. If Vettel goes off to Ferrari to replace Alonso Red Bull would not have a very convincing replacement in Kimi. Hence Kimi is an opportunistic signing if it happens.

[Phil]

I agree. But I also think Vettel only signing a one year extension to his contract puts some doubts over Vettels long-term commitment. The thinking at Redbull must be - if Vettel does indeed leave eventually for a possible Ferrari seat, why shouldn't they already start investing in another good driver to assess their options? There's a possibility that Redbull might not be as dominant come next year, so their seat might not be as desirable as it is now.

Kimi is two years older than Alonso. If Vettel goes off to Ferrari to replace Alonso Red Bull would not have a very convincing replacement in Kimi. Hence Kimi is an opportunistic signing if it happens.

That is true. Although, if Vettel does indeed leave for Ferrari, they would have another seat vacant and depending on their success, might be able to chose a young driver with potential - which I can't see Kimi being bothered about and could benefit any younger driver as he steps up to the task.

I guess I see Redbull foremost as a drinks compnany that wants maximum marketing exposure. I think, the people in charge might not choose their next drivers with the same arguments as perhaps a McLaren or Ferrari would. Kimi would be an excellent choice and his age not much of a factor for now.

[WhiteBlue]

I guess I see Redbull foremost as a drinks compnany that wants maximum marketing exposure. I think, the people in charge might not choose their next drivers with the same arguments as perhaps a McLaren or Ferrari would. Kimi would be an excellent choice and his age not much of a factor for now.

The marketing considerations at Red Bull are primarily driven by Advertising Value Equivalence (AVE). Many people don't seem to realize that. In order for that scheme to work the personality and nationality of the driver is not paramount important. It is by far more important that the driver is capable to attract TV time during the sessions. That is the main source of revenue for Red Bull Technologies. Red Bull Austria would not have a problem with their markting scheme if they allowed their driver to skip all marketing events but the most important. I'm sure they would have offered that to KIMI.