Mercedes AMG F1 W04

A place to discuss the characteristics of the cars in Formula One, both current as well as historical. Laptimes, driver worshipping and team chatter do not belong here.
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NathanOlder
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Joined: 02 Mar 2012, 10:05
Location: Kent

Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W04

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Hi guys, just something that's been bugging me for a few days,
The theory is that Mercedes heat their rear tyres quicker than most , thus enables Lewis & Nico to dominate Saturday sessions in qualifying. This makes perfect sense.
Then on the sunday they struggle with bad tyre deg and go backwards. This also makes perfect sense.

The 1 thing bugging me is, if this was the case, why is it Nico & Lewis are always almost the slowest in the top ten on the opening few laps? Surely they would be the best? The tyres are fine for the opening laps, and if the can heat them to the optimal temperature fastest they should be fastest in the opening laps. But its certainly not the case.
GoLandoGo
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ltitus
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W04

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I am no expert on a F1 suspension but from my perspective, it seems that the suspension on their car has a fundamental problem on hi fuel loads. There entire suspension setup is just to aggressive on the tires and it shows the most during the start of the race. The cars tend to speed up towards the end of the race after the fuel burns off and are often time even faster than the front runners.
If I am right on this, it will explain why they are so fast in quali and why we haven't seen such a quick solution to this issue as of yet.

holeindalip
holeindalip
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Joined: 11 Jun 2013, 01:58
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W04

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They are the slowest because if they went as fast as they could they would burn the tires off in just a few laps especially with a high fuel load...

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sucof
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Joined: 23 Nov 2012, 12:15

Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W04

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NathanOlder wrote:Hi guys, just something that's been bugging me for a few days,
The theory is that Mercedes heat their rear tyres quicker than most , thus enables Lewis & Nico to dominate Saturday sessions in qualifying. This makes perfect sense.
Then on the sunday they struggle with bad tyre deg and go backwards. This also makes perfect sense.

The 1 thing bugging me is, if this was the case, why is it Nico & Lewis are always almost the slowest in the top ten on the opening few laps? Surely they would be the best? The tyres are fine for the opening laps, and if the can heat them to the optimal temperature fastest they should be fastest in the opening laps. But its certainly not the case.
I agree with the tyre preserving theory, and also there are infos about Mercedes starts with more fuel than others, that can also be a problem at the start.

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ringo
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Joined: 29 Mar 2009, 10:57

Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W04

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NathanOlder wrote:Hi guys, just something that's been bugging me for a few days,
The theory is that Mercedes heat their rear tyres quicker than most , thus enables Lewis & Nico to dominate Saturday sessions in qualifying. This makes perfect sense.
Then on the sunday they struggle with bad tyre deg and go backwards. This also makes perfect sense.

The 1 thing bugging me is, if this was the case, why is it Nico & Lewis are always almost the slowest in the top ten on the opening few laps? Surely they would be the best? The tyres are fine for the opening laps, and if the can heat them to the optimal temperature fastest they should be fastest in the opening laps. But its certainly not the case.
remember in qualy the car is light, i guess it has to do with starting on heavy fuel.
It can also be that having got so much out of the tyres in qualy, the tyres are in less optimal state at the start of the race compared to the other cars which didnt get them up to optimal range during qualy.

I agree with what is being said here, they are probably looking at one instant of tyre performance. Maybe the car is setup on a peak in terms of getting the most out of the tyres. That is a very aggressive setup that only looks to use the tyres to the max on one point, but doesn't really cater to other instances through out the race.
But ultimately i feel the tyres are not in the range that pirelli so nicely revealed in their hungaroring video. The setup and how the car is made simply builds temperatures too quickly through the tyres and can't get the temperatures back down.
In fact the damage is probably done if the tyres stay at elevated temperatures too much as the rubber changes permanently.
The FRIC may have to do with this overheating as well, the mechanical contact with the track is good, .... tooo good. 8)
For Sure!!

holeindalip
holeindalip
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Joined: 11 Jun 2013, 01:58
Location: Decatur,IL USA

Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W04

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i think they just missed some setup work in germany, they went just as long in their stints if not longer than redbull. they go slower on their first few laps becuse they believe if they warm the tires up slow they last longer

smlbstcbr
smlbstcbr
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W04

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holeindalip wrote:i think they just missed some setup work in germany, they went just as long in their stints if not longer than redbull. they go slower on their first few laps becuse they believe if they warm the tires up slow they last longer
I hope so... if not, we're about to get another loooong weekend of tyre melting.

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NathanOlder
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Joined: 02 Mar 2012, 10:05
Location: Kent

Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W04

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I see, I do find it hard to believe its down to "taking it easy in the opening laps" As I doubt any driver would (or is even capable) of taking it easy on the first 2 laps. Track position is still vital and taking it easy and losing a few positions is very damaging. I guess its surely down to the weight of the car and the W04 just doesnt like running on a full tank. Its just strange how it seems the W04 is the only car that always goes backwards at the start.
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Cocles
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Joined: 02 Sep 2011, 13:27

Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W04

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Thank god the fuel loads will be 50kg less next season.

stefan_
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W04

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Hungary 2013 - Thursday (25.07.2013)

Image
"...and there, very much in flames, is Jacques Laffite's Ligier. That's obviously a turbo blaze, and of course, Laffite will be able to see that conflagration in his mirrors... he is coolly parking the car somewhere safe." Murray Walker, San Marino 1985

muhammadtalha-13
muhammadtalha-13
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Joined: 15 Mar 2013, 12:42

Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W04

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stefan_ wrote:Hungary 2013 - Thursday (25.07.2013)

http://i.imgur.com/lg6UX7y.jpg
Nose Bulge. And a small flap over the cascade.

elf341
elf341
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Joined: 10 Aug 2011, 19:31

Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W04

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Pelican bulge below nose looks new.

Compare with the below from germany:
Image

elf341
elf341
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Joined: 10 Aug 2011, 19:31

Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W04

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muhammadtalha-13 wrote:Nose Bulge. And a small flap over the cascade.
Good spot! It looks like a cascade wing attached to the FW endplate, unless my eyes are deceiving me. Very interesting, don't think I've seen that idea before so far back on the wing.

diego.liv
diego.liv
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Joined: 19 Feb 2013, 17:37

Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W04

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muhammadtalha-13 wrote:
stefan_ wrote:Hungary 2013 - Thursday (25.07.2013)

http://i.imgur.com/lg6UX7y.jpg
Explain me this:
They made a higher nose to increase the amount of air passing under it, but at high speeds there could be problems with pressure, affecting the performance; so, why adding the bulge NOW, there's a short straight here, and the bulge has the aim to reduce those potential pressure problems

Huntresa
Huntresa
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Joined: 03 Dec 2011, 11:33

Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W04

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elf341 wrote:
muhammadtalha-13 wrote:Nose Bulge. And a small flap over the cascade.
Good spot! It looks like a cascade wing attached to the FW endplate, unless my eyes are deceiving me. Very interesting, don't think I've seen that idea before so far back on the wing.

Yeah looks like a 2nd cascade right behind