Silly Season 2013/14

[jeremy]

I agree with Whiteblue's point too. I even think that the Kimi+Red Bull thing has been on since his comeback, and it was just a matter of timing, financially and technically viability for it to happen. I remember Kimi in an interview that he credits the F2007 as a very very good racecar and in the same interview he also said the best car he has driven in his career was Newey's McLaren MP4-20. In the 2005 one tire season, KImi was able to qualify and race that car like his own father built it for him. Only due to engine problems that held him back for the title. I remember a Peter Windsor article on Newey saying praises on Kimi's natural mastery in preserving/maximizing the tires- he called it 'the traction ellipes' or 'friction circle' - 'the trading of retardation against the increase in cornering load'. He still does it now in the Lotus. Its the chance for a better racecar he is after. I also think it will be good for Seb, for once prove his critics wrong. I think there won't be any inter-team squabble, as Seb has mentioned in many interviews that respect on and off the track is high between him and Kimi. It will good for Red Bull. No matter if Seb beats Kimi or Kimi beats Seb, its good racing and good for F1.

[iotar__]

I agree with Whiteblue's point too. I even think that the Kimi+Red Bull thing has been on since his comeback, and it was just a matter of timing, financially and technically viability for it to happen.

No, completely wrong, subject didn't exist until Webber decided to retire after Maylasia. They weren't interested in 2012 and 2013. It's a speculation but if Webber wanted to stay this whole drama wouldn't exist. The way it drags on and on now - a proof.

I remember Kimi in an interview that he credits the F2007 as a very very good racecar and in the same interview he also said the best car he has driven in his career was Newey's McLaren MP4-20. In the 2005 one tire season, KImi was able to qualify and race that car like his own father built it for him. Only due to engine problems that held him back for the title. I remember a Peter Windsor article on Newey saying praises on Kimi's natural mastery in preserving/maximizing the tires- he called it 'the traction ellipes' or 'friction circle' - 'the trading of retardation against the increase in cornering load'. He still does it now in the Lotus. Its the chance for a better racecar he is after. I also think it will be good for Seb, for once prove his critics wrong. I think there won't be any inter-team squabble, as Seb has mentioned in many interviews that respect on and off the track is high between him and Kimi. It will good for Red Bull. No matter if Seb beats Kimi or Kimi beats Seb, its good racing and good for F1.

What, 'preserving' the tyres (Bridgestone tyres even ) as opposed to pushing 100%, overtaking, taking chances, gaining positions at the start? I don't believe that, pre Pirelli "golden era" was a lie? It's also really shocking to hear that "best" cars were the ones that gave best results, 2007 one great as opposed to drastically different 2008, huh? Same with 2005 and 2006.

Overall I disagree: it's the most overblown and meaningless switch in F1. Does anyone else wonder why RB wouldn't even bother with someone like Hulkenberg (as overrated as he is) or Di Resta, not to mention Hamilton when he was available?
They're looking for solid, manageable nr 2 points collector for WCC. If the car is good like in the last four seasons it won't matter, if it's not, 2nd driver whoever it will be won't make a difference.

[WhiteBlue]

@ iotar. I think you are kidding yourself is you believe Mateschitz follows Ferrari's thinking about #1 #2 drivers. His view is different AFAIK. He basically does not care if the WDC gets lost because his drivers both collect big points. In the process they would produce so much valuable TV time that it would not even matter. And they would still have the WCC. And if it goes really well you cannot exclude that one of them would still win the WDC and not get pipped to it by a competitor.

[jeremy]

@ iotar. The purpose of my post is simply to reinforce WhiteBlue's opinion. That what matters to Kimi is the racecar he will be driving. My view on the Kimi+Red Bull timing, is just simply an opinion of mine. An opinion based on the close ties Kimi and Red Bull had during his WRC years. My thinking is the "interest" of an F1 partnership between Kimi and RB was there even before his comeback. But as i said it was just a matter of timing, financially and technically viability for it to happen. And Webber's retirement is the timing i was talking about.

"What, 'preserving' the tyres (Bridgestone tyres even ) as opposed to pushing 100%, overtaking, taking chances, gaining positions at the start? I don't believe that, pre Pirelli "golden era" was a lie? It's also really shocking to hear that "best" cars were the ones that gave best results, 2007 one great as opposed to drastically different 2008, huh? Same with 2005 and 2006."

Not sure what you meant about this. Anyway the particular Kimi interview i mention was in 2008. He said the best racecar he had driven was Newey's 2005 McLaren MP4-20. He said it boded well with his driving style better than his title winning F2007. And Newey echoed the same in his interview with Windsor in the 2005 Monaco GP. I was not saying the 05 cars are better than the 08 cars or 07 cars or something along those lines. Those cars car quite similar, the only major changes are the engines in 06 (from v10 to the current v8), some aero rules. But in 2005 significant regulation changes we're the topic. Engine lifespan and the single tire set/race rule are a big factor on the race. And the addition of the tire war then, tire management then was vital for one's racecraft. It is vital now and vital then. In flat out stints and even todays processional races the drivers ability to maximize tire life is expected. Its just somehow Pirelli missed some points here and there with the 2013 specs, enough that the difficult challenge to manage them has now become a major issue from a sporting and safety perspective.

[sennafan24]

But do Red Bull want him now?
If Riccardo impresses more and more, Kimi's chances decrease less and less.

Wishful thinking IMO. Of course Mateschitz wants him. What have we leaned over the last weeks? That Red Bull have offered the seat and Kimi is the person making the decision. Why do you think anything changes? Ricciardo is still Plan B should Kimi decide against logic to stay put.

Because Riccardo has been top draw recently, today in Hungry he performed better than Kimi did. Riccardo outperformed JEV by half a second, whilst Kimi was outperformed by Romain by a few tenths.

Riccardo being in the Red Bull for the YDT is also a promising sign, coupled with Kimi not wanting to do P.R to a massive degree, the team may see Riccardo as the easier, cheaper and long term option.

I will not be shocked if either of them sign.

I am a Kimi fan btw

[FoxHound]

@ iotar. I think you are kidding yourself is you believe Mateschitz follows Ferrari's thinking about #1 #2 drivers. His view is different AFAIK. He basically does not care if the WDC gets lost because his drivers both collect big points. In the process they would produce so much valuable TV time that it would not even matter. And they would still have the WCC. And if it goes really well you cannot exclude that one of them would still win the WDC and not get pipped to it by a competitor.

I cannot for one minute believe you posted this without giving credence to the last 3 seasons.
Vettel = Alonso and Webber = Massa.
It's uncannily similar.
And before we go on what the protagonists "say", lets just go by how they act.
There are defacto number 1 and 2 drivers at Ferrari and red bull.
Any sentiment contrary, kinda goes against what I've seen. Feel free to prove me wrong.

[SectorOne]

[sennafan24]

That misses a lot of variables though. Riccardo has been a work in progress over the past few years, his improvement recently has been clear.

I predict that come year end Riccardo should be able to out-score JEV, if his stellar qualifying performances keep putting him in a position to do so.

[djos]

Riccardo reminds me of Webber before got cleaned up by that 4wd, he is able to take cars and qualify them well above were they have any right to be but falls back in the race due to car being out of position in the 1st place.

[raymondu999]

Riccardo reminds me of Webber before got cleaned up by that 4wd, he is able to take cars and qualify them well above were they have any right to be but falls back in the race due to car being out of position in the 1st place.

A far better starter though. Remember the Jaguar days? 2003 Malaysia for example. Front row to P14 by Turn 9

[djos]

Lol, yeah very true!

Btw on last nights Pre-Qually show, Alan Jones ('80 WDC) reported that Horner has said JEV is not ready for an RBR drive.

That's good news for Dan.

[raymondu999]

Lol, yeah very true!

Btw on last nights Pre-Qually show, Alan Jones ('80 WDC) reported that Horner has said JEV is not ready for an RBR drive.

That's good news for Dan.

I don't think it's good news for Dan, in that I don't think it's news at all. IMO the driver selection for RBR's YDT program already made it abundantly clear that JEV wasn't on the radar anymore. Unless, of course - they were just using Dan as a test benchmark, because then they could compare JEV as well anyways (via comparing the STR data, against the Dan data for YDT, then creating a set of sample data that is representative of JEV). But I find option 2 somewhat unlikely.

[djos]

I don't see how eliminating his team mate as a competitor for the RBR drive could be anything but good.

Btw he smashed JEV by over 1/2 a second again in qually - shows how well he's matured in the art of maximizing qually results.

[Cold Fussion]

http://i.imgur.com/MK8x4PB.jpg

The key question is how good of a car is the Torro Rosso on a Sunday. Either Ricciardo is a bad racer, or the car is not great come Sunday. I think option 2 is the more likely one.

[djos]

http://i.imgur.com/MK8x4PB.jpg

The key question is how good of a car is the Torro Rosso on a Sunday. Either Ricciardo is a bad racer, or the car is not great come Sunday. I think option 2 is the more likely one.

I say option 2 as well, his racing in the junior categories was always pretty damn good.