Ferrari at Indianapolis - Mutual love unanswered

Please discuss here all your remarks and pose your questions about all racing series, except Formula One. Both technical and other questions about GP2, Touring cars, IRL, LMS, ...
Sombrero
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Ferrari at Indianapolis - Mutual love unanswered

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This is from 8W. A very nice piece of history written by Henri Greuter.
Not only for Indy specialists or tiffosi della Scuderia Ferrari.
A good read for motorsport enthousiasts.


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http://forix.autosport.com/8w/ferrari-i ... ction.html

Contents

1951: Ferrari and Indianapolis
1952: Ferrari at Indianapolis
1956: A 'hybrid' against one of Indy's most persistent jinxes
1958: At home against Indycars
1961-1968: Of phantoms and enfants terribles
1971-1973: 'Meet my uncle Franco'


and there's more to follow...

Sombrero
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Re: Ferrari at Indianapolis - Mutual love unanswered

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The series is now complete !

http://forix.autosport.com/8w/ferrari-i ... ction.html

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Here the beautiful Ferrari 637 and its story http://forix.autosport.com/8w/ferrari-i ... -1986.html

timbo
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Re: Ferrari at Indianapolis - Mutual love unanswered

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Thanks for headup!

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ecapox
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Re: Ferrari at Indianapolis - Mutual love unanswered

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Yep. Never raced. Don't even think it saw US soil.

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GitanesBlondes
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That was never a serious effort by any means.

It was just used as a negotiating tactic by Ferrari.

Easiest way to know this? The fuel cap is on the wrong side of the vehicle.
"I don't want to make friends with anybody. I don't give a sh*t for fame. I just want to win." -Nelson Piquet

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Re: Ferrari at Indianapolis - Mutual love unanswered

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GitanesBlondes wrote:That was never a serious effort by any means.

It was just used as a negotiating tactic by Ferrari.

Easiest way to know this? The fuel cap is on the wrong side of the vehicle.
Isn't it, that's what I have always been thinking myself, never seen filling-up from the right side of an Indy-car car, or have I?
"I spent most of my money on wine and women...I wasted the rest"

Saribro
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xpensive
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Perhaps Postlethwaite never been to the brickyard and hedged his bets with one cap on either side?

Odd indeed.
"I spent most of my money on wine and women...I wasted the rest"

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GitanesBlondes
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xpensive wrote:Perhaps Postlethwaite never been to the brickyard and hedged his bets with one cap on either side?

Odd indeed.
I still think that the fuel cap thing was a mistake. It really makes little sense to me as the pit stops in Indy always required refueling to be on the left side of the chassis.

The car does run, but few have ever seen it run outside of Italy.

The IMS website had this nice little write-up on it...
Tucked into a corner of the Gilles Villeneuve exhibit at the Museo Ferrari (Ferrari Museum) in Maranello, Italy, is a most unusual single-seat race car. It’s a Ferrari, naturally, but it’s slightly bigger than the plethora of Formula One cars on display.

Meet the Ferrari Type 637, designed in 1986 to compete in the CART PPG IndyCar World Series and the Indianapolis 500. Details about the car are hard to come by, because it never was actually entered in a race. The car has rarely left Italy and has run on only a couple of occasions on Ferrari’s private Fiorano test track.

In the final stages of his life, Ferrari patriarch Enzo Ferrari was as feisty as ever. So when Formula One impresario Bernie Ecclestone proposed changes to F1’s Concorde Agreement, Enzo Ferrari fought back. He threatened to pull out of Formula One, and to back up his threat, he commissioned a Ferrari Indy car.

After seeking advice from Goodyear Racing general manager Leo Mehl (who was later Indianapolis Motor Speedway vice president and executive director of the Indy Racing League), Ferrari contacted leading Indy car team Truesports as a potential partner in the venture. In mid-1985, Truesports sent one of its successful March-Cosworth Indy cars to Ferrari, where it was disassembled and inspected. Truesports driver Bobby Rahal traveled to Italy and put in two days of testing in the March at Fiorano.

“This was right in the middle of the racing season, and I went over there to test in September while the racing season was still going on,” Rahal recalled in his biography, “Bobby Rahal: The Graceful Champion,” by Gordon Kirby. “We tested our March-Cosworth at Fiorano, and (Michele) Alboreto drove the car a little bit. Of course, Ferrari copied everything, or tried to.

“We took a skeleton crew over, and we tried to convince (race engineer) Adrian Newey to leave March and design the Ferrari Indy car, but we didn’t know March had committed Adrian to Kraco Racing for 1986.”

Instead, Gustav Brunner was contracted to pen the car, which bears a striking resemblance to the F187/88 Formula One car that Brunner subsequently produced for Ferrari. Installed in the back was a 2.65-liter turbocharged V-8 engine, designated Type 034 and built to CART specifications, with the unique feature of exhaust pipes exiting through the vee at the top of the engine, similar to the arrangement used by Ferrari’s 1.5-liter turbo V-6 cars in F1 from 1981-88.

Meanwhile, Enzo Ferrari continued to battle with Ecclestone, issuing a statement in the summer of 1986.

“The news concerning the possibility of Ferrari abandoning Formula One to race in the United States has a basis in fact,” Ferrari said. “For some time at Ferrari there has been study of a program of participation at Indianapolis and in the CART championship. In the event that in Formula One the sporting and technical rules of the Concorde Agreement are not sufficiently guaranteed for three years the Ferrari team (in agreement with its suppliers and in support of its presence in the US) will put this program into effect.”

The car was completed in the summer of 1986, and the engine was demonstrated to the media in September. Alboreto even tested the car on a couple of occasions at Fiorano, where it reportedly compared quite favorably to the Truesports March 85C that Ferrari still retained. However, the legendary marque was struggling in F1 at the time, and newly recruited chief designer John Barnard decreed that work on the Indy car project must stop at least until Ferrari was sufficiently competitive in F1 again.

Enzo Ferrari, keen to see an end to the 1.5-liter turbo formula in F1, brokered a deal with Ecclestone. If F1 would switch to a 3.5-liter normally aspirated formula for 1989, allowing his beloved 12-cylinder engines to compete again, Ferrari would cease work on the Indy car project. That’s exactly what happened. Sadly, Enzo Ferrari died in August 1988, so he never saw or heard Barnard’s V-12-powered 640 chassis with driver Nigel Mansell win on its debut in the 1989 Brazilian Grand Prix.

“In the end, Enzo was just pulling everybody’s chain,” Rahal recalled. “He was fighting with the FIA, as he did so often. But it was an interesting time and an interesting experience.”

Although the Ferrari Indy car was stillborn, the Type 034 engine survived and was ultimately re-engineered and badged as an Alfa Romeo. Installed in a March chassis, the Alfa was raced by Roberto Guerrero, Danny Sullivan and Al Unser, but without any real success. In 1991, Sullivan managed a fourth-place finish at Surfers Paradise, Australia, and fifth at the Milwaukee Mile. But by then, the engine was essentially a 5-year old design, badly underpowered compared to the contemporary Cosworth and Ilmor/Chevrolet engines.

But the Ferrari 637 Indy car finally did make it to Indianapolis. In 1994, it was loaned for a time to the Indianapolis Motor Speedway Hall of Fame Museum, where American racing fans saw it and marveled about what might have been if Ferrari entered Indy car racing.
Enzo only cared about F1 at that point of his life. With the turbo era in full swing within F1, I don't see how they would have successfully split staff between CART and F1.

I do think it was a shame they didn't at least pursue a season or two in CART because that would have been something special to see. I suppose we can blame John Barnard in part since he didn't think it was worth pursuing. That might've rung truer 10 years later, but in 1986, CART was still and would remain a premier open-wheel series in the US.

Could you imagine if they had fielded that at the 1987 Indy 500 with Mario Andretti behind the wheel?
"I don't want to make friends with anybody. I don't give a sh*t for fame. I just want to win." -Nelson Piquet

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Re: Ferrari at Indianapolis - Mutual love unanswered

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GitanesBlondes wrote: ...
Could you imagine if they had fielded that at the 1987 Indy 500 with Mario Andretti behind the wheel?
Oh mama...with the old man still alive, all they would have had to do is to make the grid.

Might well have been John Barnard who called it off, he never liked internal competition much.
"I spent most of my money on wine and women...I wasted the rest"

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GitanesBlondes
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xpensive wrote:
GitanesBlondes wrote: ...
Could you imagine if they had fielded that at the 1987 Indy 500 with Mario Andretti behind the wheel?
Oh mama...with the old man still alive, all they would have had to do is to make the grid.

Might well have been John Barnard who called it off, he never liked internal competition much.
Enzo probably would have moved heaven and earth to get Mario behind the wheel, and I'm sure Mario would have felt obligated but happy to drive for Enzo again.

While slightly off topic, here's another one.

If Ferrari went to CART and had success, they would have viewed that as the perfect marketing tool for the US market. So, the next question is, does the CART/IRL split ever occur if Ferrari was involved? I have to imagine with the level of competition that there could have been as well as the money rolling in, people would have laughed in the face of Tony George.
"I don't want to make friends with anybody. I don't give a sh*t for fame. I just want to win." -Nelson Piquet

langwadt
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Re: Ferrari at Indianapolis - Mutual love unanswered

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xpensive wrote:
GitanesBlondes wrote:That was never a serious effort by any means.

It was just used as a negotiating tactic by Ferrari.

Easiest way to know this? The fuel cap is on the wrong side of the vehicle.
Isn't it, that's what I have always been thinking myself, never seen filling-up from the right side of an Indy-car car, or have I?
on the first pic on that website the filler cap is on the other side so I guess it could go on either side, guess it is a left over from F1 needing that

AccipiterNL
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Re: Ferrari at Indianapolis - Mutual love unanswered

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To everyone,

In this thread it's been doubted if the Ferrai 637 ever had been in the USA.
It was, I swear to God it was. because I saw that car over there..
As can be read in the also quoted piece released on the IMS website about the 637. The car has indeed been at the IMS museum early 1994. During the winter time, this before the track got lots of visitors again.
That is when I made the pictures that I included within the article.

As for the comment that it couldn't be a serious project because of the fuel filler on the wrong side. CART Cars of that era and later did have fuel fillers on each side because CART raced on clockwise road tracks and then they were refueled on the right side. CART was more than Indy only, though indeed of paramount importance within the CART season.


Sincerely,

Henri Greuter

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Re: Ferrari at Indianapolis - Mutual love unanswered

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GitanesBlondes wrote: ...
Although the Ferrari Indy car was stillborn, the Type 034 engine survived and was ultimately re-engineered and badged as an Alfa Romeo. Installed in a March chassis, the Alfa was raced by Roberto Guerrero, Danny Sullivan and Al Unser, but without any real success. In 1991, Sullivan managed a fourth-place finish at Surfers Paradise, Australia, and fifth at the Milwaukee Mile. But by then, the engine was essentially a 5-year old design, badly underpowered compared to the contemporary Cosworth and Ilmor/Chevrolet engines.
...
But the Ferrari 637 Indy car finally did make it to Indianapolis. In 1994, it was loaned for a time to the Indianapolis Motor Speedway Hall of Fame Museum, where American racing fans saw it and marveled about what might have been if Ferrari entered Indy car racing
...
The Alfa Romeo engine was actually very much different than the Ferrari, with conventional xhausts and all.
"I spent most of my money on wine and women...I wasted the rest"

Richard
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Re: Ferrari at Indianapolis - Mutual love unanswered

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xpensive wrote:Perhaps Postlethwaite never been to the brickyard and hedged his bets with one cap on either side?

Odd indeed.
The car was designed by Gustav Brunner not Postlethwaite. Now have a look at Bobby Rahal's car from 1986 and spot the fuel caps on both sides ...

http://dlstatic.speedtv.com/imageserve/ ... 75x459.jpg
http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6041/5902 ... 7788_z.jpg