Did Bernie lie?

Post here all non technical related topics about Formula One. This includes race results, discussions, testing analysis etc. TV coverage and other personal questions should be in Off topic chat.
Richard
Richard
Moderator
Joined: 15 Apr 2009, 14:41
Location: UK

Re: Did Bernie lie?

Post

Posts about Hitler, Goebbels and sado-masochist sex have been deleted.

SilverArrow
SilverArrow
0
Joined: 27 Nov 2012, 03:07

Re: Did Bernie lie?

Post

richard_leeds wrote:Posts about Hitler, Goebbels and sado-masochist sex have been deleted.
:wtf: Wow, interesting stuff going on in this thread.

User avatar
GitanesBlondes
26
Joined: 30 Jul 2013, 20:16

Re: Did Bernie lie?

Post

I'm still waiting for WhiteBlue to answer.
"I don't want to make friends with anybody. I don't give a sh*t for fame. I just want to win." -Nelson Piquet

xpensive
xpensive
214
Joined: 22 Nov 2008, 18:06
Location: Somewhere in Scandinavia

Re: Did Bernie lie?

Post

I think it's safe to say that MrE will never be convicted for anything, he's got way too much money and influence for that to happen, but the trial might throw up much enough manure to send Daimler packing and introduce Toto-Lauda GP.
"I spent most of my money on wine and women...I wasted the rest"

User avatar
WhiteBlue
92
Joined: 14 Apr 2008, 20:58
Location: WhiteBlue Country

Re: Did Bernie lie?

Post

GitanesBlondes wrote:I'm still waiting for WhiteBlue to answer.
I have no idea what to answer to. The story you posted btw is completely biased and full of libel. It has cost the author all his reputation of a serious journalist. Compare the Wiki entry on the man.
Tom Rubython is a British journalist, entrepreneur and publisher with an interest in business topics and Formula One racing. He was formerly the founder and publisher of Formula 1 Magazine, BusinessF1 Magazine and editor of EuroBusiness magazine. He has written three books and most recently headed a collaboration to publish a 2004 biography of Ayrton Senna, The Life of Senna. Rubython lost a libel suit before the UK High Court in 2006 and was ordered to pay damages of £75,000. He appealed against this award but lost in the UK Court of Appeal on 18 April 2007. In June 2006, he faced another libel suit, this time from FIA director of publicity Richard Woods which Woods won.
All of this is actually off topic as far as I'm concerned. So don' expect me to make more comments about Max Mosley's history with Ecclestone.

As far as the Munich court and his track record is concerned I must say I rather trust my compatriot Peter Knoll than xpensive. Knoll indicted Ecclestone and he will send him to jail or retirement in my view. Until that day Ecclestone is not guilty but I say within the next six month that will change.
Formula One's fundamental ethos is about success coming to those with the most ingenious engineering and best .............................. organization, not to those with the biggest budget. (Dave Richards)

User avatar
SectorOne
166
Joined: 26 May 2013, 09:51

Re: Did Bernie lie?

Post

The voting system showing it´s true colors.

"I don´t agree with you therefore this post is useless".

Btw, i neutralized your post, it´s ridiculous you can´t even have an opinion without the system getting abused.
I can honestly say i don´t agree with you but i would never in my life just downvote a person because of that, it´s preposterous really.

But then again this is F1techincal, far worse things have been seen...

In reality you probably should have double the amount of stars but because people don´t agree with you the system gets flawed pretty quickly.
Power corrupts and absolute power absolutely corrupts, remember that folks..
Having the ability to downvote is a form of power. You are in control of the reputation of another person.
"If the only thing keeping a person decent is the expectation of divine reward, then brother that person is a piece of sh*t"

xpensive
xpensive
214
Joined: 22 Nov 2008, 18:06
Location: Somewhere in Scandinavia

Re: Did Bernie lie?

Post

Agreed, I just had four downvotes and four upvotes inside one hour, from the same thread.
"I spent most of my money on wine and women...I wasted the rest"

User avatar
GitanesBlondes
26
Joined: 30 Jul 2013, 20:16

Re: Did Bernie lie?

Post

WhiteBlue wrote:
GitanesBlondes wrote:I'm still waiting for WhiteBlue to answer.
I have no idea what to answer to. The story you posted btw is completely biased and full of libel. It has cost the author all his reputation of a serious journalist. Compare the Wiki entry on the man.
Tom Rubython is a British journalist, entrepreneur and publisher with an interest in business topics and Formula One racing. He was formerly the founder and publisher of Formula 1 Magazine, BusinessF1 Magazine and editor of EuroBusiness magazine. He has written three books and most recently headed a collaboration to publish a 2004 biography of Ayrton Senna, The Life of Senna. Rubython lost a libel suit before the UK High Court in 2006 and was ordered to pay damages of £75,000. He appealed against this award but lost in the UK Court of Appeal on 18 April 2007. In June 2006, he faced another libel suit, this time from FIA director of publicity Richard Woods which Woods won.
All of this is actually off topic as far as I'm concerned. So don' expect me to make more comments about Max Mosley's history with Ecclestone.

As far as the Munich court and his track record is concerned I must say I rather trust my compatriot Peter Knoll than xpensive. Knoll indicted Ecclestone and he will send him to jail or retirement in my view. Until that day Ecclestone is not guilty but I say within the next six month that will change.
UK libel laws are one of, if not the worst in the Western world, so I wouldn't exactly hold them up as the shining torch of proof.

The partnership of Mosley and Ecclestone may be off topic in your opinion, but I don't share that sentiment. Where we currently are today with this looming trial is a product very much of their partnership.

While it's speculation, had the teams been able to bid on the sport's commercial rights, the very real possibility exists that Ecclestone would never have been able to do what he did over the past 15 or so years. I believe the teams should have had the commercial rights that Ecclestone got ahold of simply because they take far more risk than any other group within Formula 1. Bernie's tactics are akin to what a street thug does, and he takes no real risk with his methods. It's all profit for him at the end of the day, made capable courtesy of Max Mosley.

An interesting quote to consider when one looks back at the past 2 decades is the following...
"Behind the scenes, the biggest single event of the year was the unseating of Jean-Marie Balestre as President of the sport's governing body, FISA, by Max Mosley. After 13 years of autocratic rule at the helm of international motor sport, the high-profile Frenchman was voted out by a margin of 43 to 29 by supporters of the more diplomatic Mosley.

Max is an old hand at the business of motor racing politics and, while he projects a well-polished and highly reasoned approach, it would be a mistake to believe him to be a softer touch. Unlike Balestre, Mosley favours the rapier rather than the bludgeon, but his commitment to the sport is no less obvious and deep-rooted for that. He has pledged himself to be a less obtuse administrator than his predecessor and feels that, by and large, Grand Prix racing works well in its current state. There are other areas of the sport which he believes would benefit more from his attention and he plans to make it his business to focus on those for the time being." -Alan Henry, November 1991
Is the sport better off than it was in 1991? Only if you consider profit to be the final determining factor.
"I don't want to make friends with anybody. I don't give a sh*t for fame. I just want to win." -Nelson Piquet

User avatar
SectorOne
166
Joined: 26 May 2013, 09:51

Re: Did Bernie lie?

Post

xpensive wrote:Agreed, I just had four downvotes and four upvotes inside one hour, from the same thread.
I just lost 4 for not believeing in a proposed conspiracy that had no weight other then a person saying something looks designed so i fully understand you.

Brilliant piece of system. Nevermind the fact that it could only contain positive things but no, it must contain negative!
"If the only thing keeping a person decent is the expectation of divine reward, then brother that person is a piece of sh*t"

xpensive
xpensive
214
Joined: 22 Nov 2008, 18:06
Location: Somewhere in Scandinavia

Re: Did Bernie lie?

Post

While three of the for upvotes were suddenly gone, just as myself.
"I spent most of my money on wine and women...I wasted the rest"

User avatar
WhiteBlue
92
Joined: 14 Apr 2008, 20:58
Location: WhiteBlue Country

Re: Did Bernie lie?

Post

Again, GB I see no relevance to the question of this thread. So I will not comment other than to say that historically the FiA owns the right to the championship. If Bernie Ecclestone and consequentially CVC is found guilty of bribing officials to remain in power respective to acquire power then the ownership of Ecclestone, CVC and delta TOPCO to the commercial rights are also in doubt. They all would not be qualified as proper persons. Bernie being a natural person and CVC being a juristic person. IMO Ecclestone and CVC in that case should get punished by the negation of the 100 year deal. It would lead too far to explain how a change of control of the commercial rights could look like. But the teams would be remunerated in every case by whoever owns the commercial rights later. If they have an interest in the running of F1 they can have a go at a tender. IMO they would not do this. They never have.
Formula One's fundamental ethos is about success coming to those with the most ingenious engineering and best .............................. organization, not to those with the biggest budget. (Dave Richards)

marcush.
marcush.
159
Joined: 09 Mar 2004, 16:55

Re: Did Bernie lie?

Post

I prefer not to comment on the voting system here but it does not look convincing tbh

We may have to take into account different cultures here -in Bernies case,that is.I was rather fuming when my collegues in Italy chose to keep quiet about an obvious problem had had absolutely no issues to blatantly lie to a collegue in germany ...
and were totally surprised about my reactions.
I´m not entirely sure about british ethics but in all the years dealing with brits (and i have to say I really like them) it was obvious they were ...different .
One british guy i know very well said once :I would never buy a car from a compatriot as he would ask double of what he thought the thing was worth and he would never try to sell a car to a brit as well as the chap would only be prepared to fork out half of what he thought the thing was worth.....
Maybe Bernie is just a bit more of this ....the prototype of what british people are ... :lol:
I apologise for my "bad" thinking .....sure this does not apply to any brits participating in this very forum...

Richard
Richard
Moderator
Joined: 15 Apr 2009, 14:41
Location: UK

Re: Did Bernie lie?

Post

Bernie is what would call a wide boy, wheeler dealer, ducking and diving. I think all cultures have them. Briatore and Balestre are other examples.

User avatar
WhiteBlue
92
Joined: 14 Apr 2008, 20:58
Location: WhiteBlue Country

Re: Did Bernie lie?

Post

Joe Saward's blog wrote:A new draft calendar for 2014 has been kicking around in FIA circles, in preparation for the next World Motorsport Council, which will be held in Dubrovnik on September 27. There is a month before that and much will happen in that time, although it seems that Bernie Ecclestone is getting the house in order now just in case things get complicated.
If Joe is making this kind of remarks it must be unusual to have all this activity so early from Bernie. It is a clear indication that he believes he will be tied up in Germany from mid September. I'm looking forward to it.
Formula One's fundamental ethos is about success coming to those with the most ingenious engineering and best .............................. organization, not to those with the biggest budget. (Dave Richards)

User avatar
MOWOG
24
Joined: 07 Apr 2013, 15:46
Location: Rhode Island, USA

Re: Did Bernie lie?

Post

Bernie is what would call a wide boy, wheeler dealer, ducking and diving. I think all cultures have them. Briatore and Balestre are other examples.
That's so. But WHY does the world of Formula One seem to have more than it's share of them? :?:

I suspect it has to do with the PTB of the sport always engaging in a global form of what a friend of mine often calls "a dick measuring contest."
Some men go crazy; some men go slow. Some men go just where they want; some men never go.