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[Holm86]

I agree about Button, but the problem with car setup is that if you don't have a teammate who's trouncing you, you can easily have no clue that you've gone down the wrong path.

So who knows if the car could be faster than it is, or if development has been hurt because of it? It's all speculation unless Sergio starts besting Button by a second or two per lap.

Even with Hamilton still in the team Button often had troubles finding a set up that suited him. And I am also sure that a driver like Hamilton would be able to extract more from the 28 than Button and Perez have done.

[Emerson.F]

I agree about Button, but the problem with car setup is that if you don't have a teammate who's trouncing you, you can easily have no clue that you've gone down the wrong path.

So who knows if the car could be faster than it is, or if development has been hurt because of it? It's all speculation unless Sergio starts besting Button by a second or two per lap.

Even with Hamilton still in the team Button often had troubles finding a set up that suited him. And I am also sure that a driver like Hamilton would be able to extract more from the 28 than Button and Perez have done.

Agreed. Canada 2012 Jb was lapped by Lewis. Suffered from oversteer and such.

[gary123]

Even with Hamilton still in the team Button often had troubles finding a set up that suited him. And I am also sure that a driver like Hamilton would be able to extract more from the 28 than Button and Perez have done.[/quote]
In qualy pace Hamilton will have done a better job than Button and Perez but in the race pace the car is such a crap that if you dont save the tires and do a pit less than the others you are on the back of the field. This is the only reason why Jenson is beating Checo.

[Holm86]

I hope McLaren doesn't extend Buttons contract. But I don't see who should replace him.

[beelsebob]

I hope McLaren doesn't extend Buttons contract. But I don't see who should replace him.

This should probably be moved to the team thread. But, unless they can get hold of kimi, I don't see any driver with enough experience just now. They need someone who can lead the team and teach checo how it's done. Much as I'd love to see PDR up here, I don't think he's ready to be a team leader yet.

[marcush.]

Now maybe Button is the reason for a bad car?
Stop dreaming ,the reason for Mclarens woes are to be found somewhere in woking ..and Hamilton would not have won a race in this heap of crap .

[Emerson.F]

Now maybe Button is the reason for a bad car?
Stop dreaming ,the reason for Mclarens woes are to be found somewhere in woking ..and Hamilton would not have won a race in this heap of crap .

Need i say more?

[AnthonyG]

To be honnest, all I can think of that engineers can design to accomodate Button's preferences is the wheelbase, brake system and steering. I highly doubt you can blame the car's performance on him.
Setup-wise is something else, but then again, it's his 3rd year at McLaren, they'll probably how what he wants corrolates to on-track speed.

[Racer X]

This isnt bad team talk too bad its in the car talk thread.

By now I wonder if the parts are still being designed for Jensen and if Sergio is still simply learning how to drive the car maid for a guy who loves understeer. Sergio must hate a car with a natural tendency to do what he isnt used to doing. Oversteer driver in an understeer car.

Or am I way off. Am I wrong this car magically is no longer just a button car and its not naturally understeery.

By the way if the car isnt desined to suit Buttons car. Then why did he run his mouth about it being. If it isnt designed for Button then who is it designed for?
If not Button. Then they really messed up.

I still think Jenson spending his whole time in Hawaii during winter break was not cool who did the engineers work with then. Not Sergio we know that. So who dont say Jenson phoned It in...

[Racer X]

Spa will be a great race with this long break all the cars tho not just our will come stronger. So the car should be faster but so will all the other teams.

[Emerson.F]

Need i say more?

You've proven the worthlessness of PR piffle. Those quotes are as useful as Bernie's gold medals or track side sprinklers.

What?! Oh im sorry mate, but this IS car related and im not making any of this up. This is what he said all those months and now that we look back in retrospect some people may see it as worthless PR piffle but we both know thats not the case.

He said he was going too mold the car to his liking and use the time Sergio was not at MTC to its fullest. Look what Mclaren came up with th 28. While everybody was evolving their cars they opted making a car too pursue Jb's 2nd title build around him.

Some people cant handle the truth. Its must all be some kind of huge coincedence that this years car is that bad...

[Richard]

I doubt a driver has that much influence over the decision making. Yes they can say which setup feels better or not, but they're hardly qualified to say pull rod instead of push rod are they?

We see the same PR pumped out every winter about car x is going to be designed to be perfect for driver y. In reality, the technical teams do their utmost to design the fastest possible car that complies with the regs. Anything that distracts from that is sub-optimal, and that includes the whims of the driver.

Put it another way, if you employed hundreds of highly qualified technical people you'd wonder why you bother signing the pay cheques if their years of technical expertise are overruled by a driver with no technical qualifications?

So as marcrush said, the problem lies in the hundred of design staff in Woking.

[Holm86]

I doubt a driver has that much influence over the decision making. Yes they can say which setup feels better or not, but they're hardly qualified to say pull rod instead of push rod are they?

We see the same PR pumped out every winter about car x is going to be designed to be perfect for driver y. In reality, the technical teams do their utmost to design the fastest possible car that complies with the regs. Anything that distracts from that is sub-optimal, and that includes the whims of the driver.

Put it another way, if you employed hundreds of highly qualified technical people you'd wonder why you bother signing the pay cheques if their years of technical expertise are overruled by a driver with no technical qualifications?

So as marcrush said, the problem lies in the hundred of design staff in Woking.

Of course the driver doesn't deside wheter pull rod or push rod. And of course the driver doesn't have a say in wheter the front wing should be 3 or 4 elements. But alot of the suspension geometries are based on driver feedback and wheter the driver preferes over or understeer. So a lot of the mechanical design is done together with the driver/s.

And that task can be very difficult if you have a driver that doesn't give proper feedback. And Buttons countless problems with finding a set up that suits him tells me that he can't be very good at providing valuable feedback to the design team.

[Richard]

I think the issues with this years cars are so fundamental that we can't implicate Button , or say his input would have helped resolve it any quicker.

If we are going to find causation in correlation, them the MP-24 is a far stronger precedent.

[Racer X]

Mr Leeds so your saying the drivers put on a show about cars being designed to suit them or what ever. But this is all just smoke. The design teams just put out the best car they can and thats it.

So Button and his claims of his "pure Buttton" car and how he was going to mold the MP4-28 to his liking talk. Its all lies its all fake.

So Jenson Buttons a liar...
Interesting honestly I dont much care anymore to talk about this. We all agree its a failed car. Has many flaws. Pull rod being one thing we all point at. I mean its an easy thing to blame look at Ferrari their 2012 season and pull rod.


Well Mr Leeds idk what to say to you but my opinion is that Buttons feedback sucks. Who ever decided to use pullrod like Ferrari after sein how hard a season they had is dumb. Also Pirrelis shitty tires suck too and McLaren need to update their windtunnel so that also sucks.

Its a mixture of sucky things lining up to each take away a tenth of speed from the car its not one thing its many small things.

I just want to know where does Sergio fit on all this. Or will he even matter. I mean Mr Leeds says the designers just design and the drivers give feedback and the engineers pretend to listen. Yeah i might be bending things a lot. But hell yoi chose to discard everything that the Media reported about Button and all his "Im going to mold the car to mee and Serrrrrrrgiio Perrrrrrrez like he Mexicans say it Serrrrrgio. Wont have any input at firat." Talk. I just wonder about Perez what his role'? Or do drivers even have one in the design. Other then driving.

This feels like a troll post but im going to allow it because you cant just discard everything Jenson went on and on about for 4 months saying and saying.