Silly Season 2013/14

[sennafan24]

Kimi or alonso. I hate this safe playing game. Riciardo will be just like webbo performance wise. Hit & miss, with miss more often than not. Vettel needs a seriously strong teammate so people will finally shut up about his incompetent co-drivers.
If Riciardo really joins RB everyone will be saying how Vettel vetoed kimi/alonso without any proof whatsoever.

I agree, I want to see a real head to head with Vettel against a Kimi/Alonso. Not even hating on Vettel, would just like to see how he performs against a top flight teammate, and yes it would silence fans from both ends one way or another.

The only solace is that Riccardo may grow into a respectful teammate. I for one are not going to hold it against Vettel for Riccardo being recruited, he seemed really up for Kimi, Alonso less so for political reasons rather than being "scared" or whatever.

I think Vettel vs Alonso would have been great for the sport. I am by no means a Vettel fan, but I think he would not stop anyone from becoming his teammate, even like I said if he would not exactly "welcome" Alonso.

[beelsebob]

Kimi or alonso. I hate this safe playing game. Riciardo will be just like webbo performance wise. Hit & miss, with miss more often than not. Vettel needs a seriously strong teammate so people will finally shut up about his incompetent co-drivers.
If Riciardo really joins RB everyone will be saying how Vettel vetoed kimi/alonso without any proof whatsoever.

I agree, I want to see a real head to head with Vettel against a Kimi/Alonso. Not even hating on Vettel, would just like to see how he performs against a top flight teammate, and yes it would silence fans from both ends one way or another.

The only solace is that Riccardo may grow into a respectful teammate. I for one are not going to hold it against Vettel for Riccardo being recruited, he seemed really up for Kimi, Alonso less so for political reasons rather than being "scared" or whatever.

I'd actually love to see Kimi vs Alonso too. We know that Hamilton and Alonso are (or were a few years ago) roughly the same level as each other, we don't know whether Kimi has been made to look good or bad by his cars, so now we'll get to find out (if the move to Ferrari turns out to be true).

It certainly would be nice to see Vettel put up against a reference marker too though.

[sennafan24]

Yeah I am looking forward to the Alonso vs Kimi, it is looking more likely to happen by the day if various reports/rumors are to be believed. I agree with the Kimi point, on the other hand if he outperforms Alonso, people will question Alonso's greatness.

But I know what Juzh means, people really are going to carry on slagging Vettel unless he gets a top flight teammate, whether it is justified or not. Alonso and Kimi are pretty much respected by most fans, its rare they get slagged on forums as much as Lewis and Vettel do.

I think Vettel will move teams at the end of his current RB deal though, so maybe we will see him against a top flight teammate then.

[beelsebob]

But I know what Juzh means, people really are going to carry on slagging Vettel unless he gets a top flight teammate

But are they? This may be unwise of me, and I may start a flame war (I hope not), but as far as I can see, the prevailing opinion of the non fans is that they *don't know* how good Vettel is. They don't say he's crap, but also don't say he's great, because they need to see more evidence than winning championships in clearly superior cars (or against teams that seemed to go out of their way to not win, as last year).

Either way, it would be productive to see either of Kimi or Vettel put up against either of Alonso or Hamilton. It would allow us to slot a bit more of the puzzle together .

[sennafan24]

But are they? This may be unwise of me, and I may start a flame war (I hope not), but as far as I can see, the prevailing opinion of the non fans is that they *don't know* how good Vettel is. They don't say he's crap, but also don't say he's great, because they need to see more evidence than winning championships in clearly superior cars (or against teams that seemed to go out of their way to not win, as last year).

Either way, it would be productive to see either of Kimi or Vettel put up against either of Alonso or Hamilton. It would allow us to slot a bit more of the puzzle together .

I think a lot of Vettel fans and fans in general think it is underrating Seb to not call him "great" he is the youngest 3 time WDC. As a non-fan I personally think this year he has proven his worth a lot more than he has in previous years, but I would like to see him against top flight teammate as "evidence" of how great he is. Some circles really do go to town on Vettel though, think the darker resources of the internet, they are less reasonable than the non-fans you alluded to.

Your last paragraph seals it for me in a nutshell. Lewis vs Vettel may cause myself a nervous breakdown though

[beelsebob]

But are they? This may be unwise of me, and I may start a flame war (I hope not), but as far as I can see, the prevailing opinion of the non fans is that they *don't know* how good Vettel is. They don't say he's crap, but also don't say he's great, because they need to see more evidence than winning championships in clearly superior cars (or against teams that seemed to go out of their way to not win, as last year).

Either way, it would be productive to see either of Kimi or Vettel put up against either of Alonso or Hamilton. It would allow us to slot a bit more of the puzzle together .

I think a lot of Vettel fans and fans in general think it is underrating Seb to not call him "great" he is the youngest 3 time WDC. As a non-fan I personally think this year he has proven his worth a lot more than he has in previous years, but I would like to see him against top flight teammate as "evidence" of how great he is. Some circles really do go to town on Vettel though, think the darker resources of the internet.

Your last paragraph seals it for me in a nutshell. Lewis vs Vettel may cause myself a nervous breakdown though

Haha, Lewis vs Vettel in the same car would cause me to "have a crisis" every time we had a qualifying session I think

I agree that this year has cemented Vettel as a very good driver in my mind much more than previous years have. I still want to see him put up against others in a straight fight though. At the moment, he's still a little bit of a "Nigel Mansel" for me – was that him, or was that Newey's car?

[sennafan24]

At the moment, he's still a little bit of a "Nigel Mansel" for me – was that him, or was that Newey's car?

I have compared him to Mansell, and for now he is on par with both Mansell and Mika Hakkinen, with a lot of time to surpass them or stay on the same level as them. Mika and Seb for me are very similar, both got accused of being "Newey pawns" but both did enough to be considered elite drivers on their own merit.

"Very good" is how I would describe Vettel for now, I do not mean that as backhanded at all. I feel Vettel fans pain, as this would be a prime chance to prove he is indeed "great," which he may just be. With Riccardo it may not prove much or do much for Vettel's legacy.

As a Lewis fan I know how it feels to have your driver dismissed often, maybe us Lewis and Vettel fans should come together as one. Those dam Kimi fans have it easy

[beelsebob]

At the moment, he's still a little bit of a "Nigel Mansel" for me – was that him, or was that Newey's car?

I have compared him to Mansell, and for now he is on par with both Mansell and Mika Hakkinen, with a lot of time to surpass them or stay on the same level as them. Mika and Seb for me are very similar, both got accused of being "Newey pawns" but both did enough to be considered elite drivers on their own merit.

"Very good" is how I would describe Vettel for now, I do not mean that as backhanded at all. I feel Vettel fans pain, as this would be a prime chance to prove he is indeed "great," which he may just be. With Riccardo it may not prove much or do much for Vettel's legacy.

As a Lewis fan I know how it feels to have your driver dismissed often, maybe us Lewis and Vettel fans should come together as one. Those dam Kimi fans have it easy

Yep, that pretty much summarises my thoughts too. In some ways, the schadenfreude, mean spirited part of my wants to see Kimi go up against Alonso and get ground into the dust, because it will confirm that Lewis and Alonso are a step above the rest. Thankfully, the majority of me recognises that he's a great guy with a lot of talent, and that he will probably do extremely well against anyone he's put up against.

[WhiteBlue]

Christ, this is fanboi yinyang three times distilled like Irish whiskey.

[sennafan24]

Alonso vs Kimi head to head will be something I will enjoy as a F1 fan, not a partisan fan. I like both as drivers and as people, so I have no preference who wins.

I can agree that we can draw some further evidence on who ranks where based on Kimi/Alonso, which is good for debate.

[rayden]

Christ, this is fanboi yinyang three times distilled like Irish whiskey.

I know right, im not his fan at all, but the lad is on track to win his 4th WDC on the bounce, hes already up the with the all time greats.

Mansell & Hakkinen... I don't even...

[SectorOne]

Ah the four horsemen of Formula 1.


Hamilton in petronas, Kimi in black, Alo in brown (sun died red) and the paint has washed of Vettel´s horse.

[MOWOG]

people really are going to carry on slagging Vettel unless he gets a top flight teammate,

Michael Schumacher never had a top flight teammate at Ferrari and he is treated as the second coming of Christ.

Here in New England, there is a generations old rivalry between the Boston Red Sox and the New York Yankees. Yankee fans, quite rightly, claim "it is all about the (championship) rings." And they have a point. If you are a multiple World Driving Champion, that pretty much settles it. If Vettel goes 4 for 4, he is going down in racing history as one of the great drivers, whether his success is due primarily to Adrian Newey's genius or not.

Get over it. Deal with it. And move on!

[sennafan24]

Christ, this is fanboi yinyang three times distilled like Irish whiskey.

I know right, im not his fan at all, but the lad is on track to win his 4th WDC on the bounce, hes already up the with the all time greats.

Mansell & Hakkinen... I don't even...

It was not a slagging session, I described him as a "elite driver" and the comparison to Mika was meant as flattery as I rate Mika very highly, and as I said he should surpass Mika (who is seen as a top 15 level driver on most polls and lists), so I am not really selling Vettel short.

people really are going to carry on slagging Vettel unless he gets a top flight teammate,

Michael Schumacher never had a top flight teammate at Ferrari and he is treated as the second coming of Christ.

When I say "people" I was not talking for myself, I do not hold against Vettel as such for not having a top flight teammate for reasons I covered above. But as Juhz says above as a Vettel fan, he wants a top flight teammate for Vettel to shut up the Vettel critics.

Some people (the British Media mainly) do knock Schumi for it even today, again I do not agree with the critics on that, but the critics are out there.

Anyway, back on topic.

Lotus? Who are the contenders.

JEV seems a strong possibility, Romain I think had destiny in his own hands and maybe the Force Indian boys may have a look in. Of course, we have to see if Kimi to Ferrari is 100% first.

I am going to predict a Romain/JEV line up for 2014.

[SectorOne]

Ah yes. Mathematically speaking, probability theory would suggest that RBR getting a string of more on the trot would be unlikely and would have to end at some point, and so mathematically speaking, it's better Alonso stays

Exactly.

And to put more weight on the ALO/RBR thing.

"the brave man does not flinch, because he has higher goals" - Alonso twitter

= i´m staying at Ferrari because i´ve got unfinished business.