Silly Season 2013/14

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notApineapple
notApineapple
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Re: Silly Season 2013/14

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munudeges wrote:Red Bull announced Ricciardo at 9:30PM UK time and already they're putting pressure on him:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/109621

The writing is already on the wall and battle lines have been draw internally at Red Bull.
You've obviously got some issues if thats how you read that...

What are a world championship team supposed to say? "Yea, its cool with us if Dan just f**ks about for a year or two, we aren't so bothered about the WCC"

Red Bull would expect any driver to be on Sebs tail next year. Its pretty pathetic your continuous diatribe against Red Bull and Dan.

aussiegman
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Re: Silly Season 2013/14

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Munudeges, I would love to know where you get your "magical mind powers" and "prophetic insights" into these situations from. You either have a clear pathological hatred of Ricciardo, serious issues or are simply trolling for attention.

My mind abounds with possible pathologies that adequately describe your anti-Ricciardo and RBR Machiavellian conspiracy obsessions that saw you attack a kid for the mere fact he smiles too much. SERIOUSLY, what happened!!

If I was his age, driving in F1 and making $$$, I'd be smiling 20hrs a day as well (4hrs to sleep but I'd probably be smiling then too). You seem to be implying you would be happier if he were to walk around crying, frowning or with a 500 yard blank stare all day??

Then you'd simply say "See the pressure has got to him, he's cracking!!" Talk about a no win situation and it gives some insight into your possible pathologies of paranoia (persecution, self fulfilling conspiracies etc).

As was said by others, its a big world out there, you might want to get out and see it. Others smile too you know.

Anyway, I digress too much.

To date, you have made a number of spurious, unfounded and outrageous claims that thus far has seen you speak for others like you have a magical link to the brain of others and simply just get the whole situation wrong.

So lets have a look at a few of your comments so far.
munudeges wrote: Red Bull cannot afford to have an unproven driver with the teams and drivers around them. He's the most illogical choice Red Bull can make with the drivers on offer to them.
Hmmm, so apparently the people at RBR are illogical idiots because they seem to disagree with you on this as he got the seat. So it has transpired that your magical insight was wrong.

It also seems that RBR can afford it and they seem to think he was a logical choice with the risks and history. Perhaps they took a long term, wider and better view from where they are standing to make an informed decision which is something I don't think you are able to do.

They may have looked at something OTHER than your overly simplistic and one dimensional championship points only view point. Perhaps they looked at a complete profile of the drivers and saw what you obviously don't or can't. You're belief in Machiavellian political scheme's is laughable, however as Niccolo Machiavelli said:

"Never was anything great achieved without danger."

So thats Strike 1, no mind reading powers or crystal ball divination here. You simply got it wrong...

Next:
munudeges wrote: Horner and Newey both know Ricciardo isn't good enough


Really, they do?? How do you know this?? Is this another example of your magical mind reading powers again? They've been so reliable thus far.

So according to you, even though they "KNEW" he wasn't up to the job, they are just going let him do it anyway? They just got run over and told to sit in the corner and do as they are told?? That doesn't hold up and you shot holes in your own arguments with this gem of a comment (and with comments from Newey himself, but we'll get to that in a second):
munudeges wrote:A juxtaposition I find interesting is that of the view of Adrian Newey. He absolutely detests politics like this and he has a long history of leaving teams when he feels things have become untenable.
So, given this and your assertion that Newey has a long history of leaving teams when he believes things are untenable, that he has just been given a driver that he "KNOWS" isn't good enough (relying on your magical insights) against his wishes, what is the date that we should we expect Newey to announce his retirement from RBR as his position is no longer tenable??

Not anytime soon I would think, so that's strike 2 and its not looking so good thus far...

Next you took a seemingly innocuous article from Autosport to support your RBR Machiavellian conspiracy as below:
munudeges wrote:Red Bull announced Ricciardo at 9:30PM UK time and already they're putting pressure on him:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/109621

The writing is already on the wall and battle lines have been draw internally at Red Bull.
Any new driver would be expected to perform and RBR as well as STR have always had short lead times for driver to prove themselves. Look at Alguersuari, Buemi et al and how short lived their times with STR were.

So that me me at least is strike 3...Ouch..

However as you seem to put so much stock in Autosport and its writings, lets look at another article from them titled "Adrian Newey: Red Bull always wanted a young driver for F1 2014". So what did Newey actually say??

"We could have taken an experienced driver, somebody guaranteed to deliver to a relatively known level, or equally we could take on a much younger driver in the hope that they'll develop to a very high level," said Newey, who is Red Bull's chief technical officer.
"We looked at the latter option and concluded that of the younger drivers, Daniel is the most promising."


Given your earlier description Newey would just leave if he thought RBR was heading off in the wrong direction. You said it so it must be true and the article was in Autosport which you rely on so that's two proofs.

In Newey's own words, Daniel was the most promising young driver and they looked at the experienced driver and discounted the option. Likely IMHO because they have an established No.1 driver in Vettel which came from a driver program which has given them success. Vettel and I expect the team would not want another "rooster in the hen house", especially as history has shown it does not work with examples like Prost and Senna, Alonso and Hamilton etc. If they hired Kimi, I woudl expect Vettel would leave in short order and he would have no shortage of options. Having a young driver to come up would seem the sensible option for any team in RBR's situation.

So why Daniel I hear you ask?

Because, when RBR looked at the WHOLE PACKAGE as F1 teams typically seem to do, and not just a one dimensional and superficial CHAMPIONSHIP POINTS aspect, he was the best candidate to develop into the team for a myriad of reasons which are pretty self explanatory even for outsiders.

Munudeges I am at a loss at to how you can possibly think you know better than the team principles. You are absolutely entitled to you own opinions but you don't express opinions, you try to disguise your opinion as fact behind a belligerent and pathological hatred for an individual as well as in inability to think you might not hold all the answers.

In short, perhaps you should consider seeking help or at least medication.

I think Daniel Ricciardo deserved the drive based on all the facts to hand and I am very happy he got the chance to try and prove himself. I can only hope he develops into a top tier driver with a long career. Whatever the future holds, he is at this point the right decision IMHO. There is no guarantee he will flourish, but I believe he has the talent to do so.

When its all said and done, we ALL have ZERO insight into the real situation from the comfort of the chairs we occupy from behind a keyboard. We can only make speculative and moderately informed guesses..THe rest is just fun and games...
Last edited by aussiegman on 06 Sep 2013, 07:49, edited 9 times in total.
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Shrieker
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Re: Silly Season 2013/14

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FWIWi i think Algersuari is a better driver than Ricciardo. The only thing he did wrong was to piss Marko off; the cardinal sin.
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djos
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Re: Silly Season 2013/14

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Shrieker wrote:FWIWi i think Algersuari is a better driver than Ricciardo. The only thing he did wrong was to piss Marko off; the cardinal sin.
Oh when did they compete against each other?
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Websta
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Re: Silly Season 2013/14

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djos wrote:
Shrieker wrote:FWIWi i think Algersuari is a better driver than Ricciardo. The only thing he did wrong was to piss Marko off; the cardinal sin.
Oh when did they compete against each other?
2007 Formula Renault 2.0, Alguersuari finished 2nd with 3 wins, 7 podiums; Ricciardo finished 6th with no podiums. They were racing for different teams.

They also technically competed against each other in the 2011 Formula One season, but hardly much of a comparison.

Not that you need a direct, teammate-teammate comparison between two drivers to be able to say that you think one is better than the other. I can easily say that I think Senna was better than Jackie Stewart, but did they ever compete against each other? Alguersuari seemed more impressive to me as well.

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djos
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Re: Silly Season 2013/14

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Was it Algy or Dan's 1st or 2nd year in that category?
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Richard
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Re: Silly Season 2013/14

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Lets move on from Riccardo's smile.

I've just seen this quote from Raikkonen:
'They know the reasons why there is no going forward right now, and until they sort out those issues we cannot talk about next year, it is as simple as that. They know exactly the reasons.'

xDama
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Re: Silly Season 2013/14

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richard_leeds wrote:Lets move on from Riccardo's smile.

I've just seen this quote from Raikkonen:
'They know the reasons why there is no going forward right now, and until they sort out those issues we cannot talk about next year, it is as simple as that. They know exactly the reasons.'
Yeah, it's becoming pretty obvious that Raikkonen wants to leave Lotus asap. The 2014-campaign probably isn't looking good. But with Ferrari the only option left and knowing they probably will retain Alonso's b*tch for another year...

I'm beginning to fear that we won't even see Kimi in 2014.
"I race to win, and if you no longer go for a gap that exists, you're no longer a racing driver." - Ayrton Senna

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iotar__
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Re: Silly Season 2013/14

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And pass up the last big pay-check of his life not to mention commercial money he gets only as an F1 driver? Don't make me laugh, only Lopez can believe in "threats" of leaving and allow this drama to last. They should have offered him a contract with expiration date, take it or leave it, and watched him running for a pen. Even if performance justified this circus it would be silly, the way it is now it's simply a joke. Anyway I thought that he signed for Ferrari already, 100% certain, what happened to that?

About Toro Rosso: http://grandprix247.com/2013/09/06/sain ... oro-rosso/. Title is of course misleading but the way Red Bull treat their young drivers makes me think that there's more marketing to it than it looked. The way they were pushing for Alguersuari over faster Buemi, the way they are carrying Vergne despite no signs of some big talent (half a season in HRT makes a difference really?), and now it's Sainz over Da Costa, Friins too. It seems it's also about markets and selling cans.

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MOWOG
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Re: Silly Season 2013/14

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It seems it's also about markets and selling cans.
Ummmm....did anyone, anywhere, at any time, seriously think Red Bull was NOT about markets and selling cans? They have orchestrated one of the most brilliant marketing campaigns in history, attaching their corporate bottom line to an association with high profile sports such as Formula One, America's Cup sailing, rallying and free falling from the edge of space.

Luca DiMontezemololololo is quite correct. They ARE a "drinks company", one with a passion for earning big buxs from the world's mania for consuming so-called "energy drinks". Have you ever actually tried a Red Bull? The stuff is AWFUL! :wtf: Baron Makeashitload must be laughing all the way to bank. :wink:
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xDama
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Re: Silly Season 2013/14

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MOWOG wrote:
It seems it's also about markets and selling cans.
Ummmm....did anyone, anywhere, at any time, seriously think Red Bull was NOT about markets and selling cans? They have orchestrated one of the most brilliant marketing campaigns in history, attaching their corporate bottom line to an association with high profile sports such as Formula One, America's Cup sailing, rallying and free falling from the edge of space.
Red Bull sells cans, Ferrari, Mercedes, Renault sell cars, Shell sells petrol, Vodafone sells phones, etc... F1 in the current era is about one thing and one thing only, sales & money. The Sirotkin-Sauber-saga is probably the most recent and most depressing fact about how F1 is so dependant on dollars.

Fact of the matter is: Red Bull & Toro Rosso at least deliver 4 drivers on the grid, that show potential, speed, quality and a marketable value. In quite a lot of aspects, Red Bull has become a prime example on how to run and develop a F1-team.
"I race to win, and if you no longer go for a gap that exists, you're no longer a racing driver." - Ayrton Senna

aussiegman
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Re: Silly Season 2013/14

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I actually likeRed Bull, even the original Thai one which they sell here in HKG.

Sorry, normal programming can resume...
Never approach a Bull from the front, a Horse from the back, or an Idiot from any direction

Richard
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Re: Silly Season 2013/14

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xDama wrote: F1 in the current era is about one thing and one thing only, sales & money. The Sirotkin-Sauber-saga is probably the most recent and most depressing fact about how F1 is so dependant on dollars.
Pay drivers are not new, they've always been there.

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iotar__
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Re: Silly Season 2013/14

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MOWOG wrote:
It seems it's also about markets and selling cans.
Ummmm....did anyone, anywhere, at any time, seriously think Red Bull was NOT about markets and selling cans? They have orchestrated one of the most brilliant marketing campaigns in history, attaching their corporate bottom line to an association with high profile sports such as Formula One, America's Cup sailing, rallying and free falling from the edge of space.

Luca DiMontezemololololo is quite correct. They ARE a "drinks company", one with a passion for earning big buxs from the world's mania for consuming so-called "energy drinks". Have you ever actually tried a Red Bull? The stuff is AWFUL! :wtf: Baron Makeashitload must be laughing all the way to bank. :wink:
Not really, although it exists for marketing reason, RB's F1 team is no different to any other team, only wealthier and better. They all need poster-boys for cars or watches, marketing value means something for all teams.

The point is (more my suspicion, I can be wrong) that their program is there to provide top, young talent for RB and they fail at a final step making decisions based on marketing and nationality rather than talent, it makes no sense. Pushing for Alguesuari over Buemi, "preferring" Vergne from the beginning (why would they even consider him for RB now?) and keeping him with excuse of smaller experience, he'll be in F1 for three season after 2014. Now supposedly Sainz over Da Costa.

xDama
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Re: Silly Season 2013/14

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richard_leeds wrote:
xDama wrote: F1 in the current era is about one thing and one thing only, sales & money. The Sirotkin-Sauber-saga is probably the most recent and most depressing fact about how F1 is so dependant on dollars.
Pay drivers are not new, they've always been there.
I'm not saying that pay drivers are a recent phenomenon, but the impact of a pay driver has significantly increased over the last years. Almost half of the field is dependant on at least 1 pay driver. And Sauber is a team that has always tried to give talented drivers a ride, and even they are now completely dependant on the money a driver brings... It's just sad to see this.

Lotus, Sauber, Williams, Caterham, Marussia and in a certain extend Force India are all dependant on at least one or preferably two pay-drivers...
"I race to win, and if you no longer go for a gap that exists, you're no longer a racing driver." - Ayrton Senna