Silly Season 2013/14

[CHT]

Without results, no sponsors and no constructors' money. That's how most teams end up in a perpetual cycle of paying drivers who don't bring in results.................. I suppose I just fail to understand peoples' issues around here. Supporting a driver a bit zealously I can understand. Trying to denigrate a driver who is clearly bringing in the results is quite another.

Lotus might have trouble getting good sponsors money like when they did with Kimi. I am not sure if sponsors like Unilever will stay on.

[marcush.]

Without testing ,there is only one justification to not go for experience and safe hands:you get a crapload of cash doing else -
Sirotkin to Sauber,Gutierrez at Sauber -it does make sense ,if you need to do it to secure the future of the team short and medium term.with all the money it is also a perspective in the long run.
Perez does make sense in the same ways ,even though one has to admit he is also quite able considering the cash he is bringing.Maldonado -I have my doubts...he may have won that race but we have not really seen anything special apart from this .
Massa clearly has been ordered to support Alonso -he would have also won in Hockenheim in THAT race ...it might have changed everything ....but hey Massa has won 11 races for the Scuderia ...more than anyone bar Schumacher ,Lauda and Ascari and 15 pole positions as well...does anyone know how many points he has bagged since driving for them?
Never badmouthing them even in the worst moments..

I think Massa would deliver a lot better than Grosjean ....so if he is prepared to adjust his salary to moderate levels he´d be a good choice.
Hulk i rate as high as Vettel,Raikkonen with potential to match Alonso and Hamilton.He has always been able to raise his game and I think this is one thing separating the good ones from the champions.

Grosjean has speed but he failed to rise his game to equal Raikkonen over time he either is slower than Raikkonen or he is involved in incidends trying too hard...

and finding sponsors thanks to kimi ...I believe it is one thing to be a fan of his no bull attitude but as a corporate company not many would jump for joy knowing he was the driver .......

[iotar__]

Yes it appears they paid Raikkonen more than they could afford. The blame for that lies with Lotus not Raikkonen.

I'm not sure how their best performance for many years can be called a lack of results???

Best in years doesn't mean best possible, it depends on your reference point, in 2012 and especially in 2013 car was so good that much better results were possible, already mentioned races, only from 2013: China, Bahrain, Hungary, Germany fight for wins in every race was possible (last two with other driver the evidence), didn't happen in either for KR, much better results in Malaysia, Monza, Monaco.

Other costs of running one driver team: constructors' championship also in terms of money, development of other driver, not maximizing team results in every race (form, chance of DNF or mistakes), relying on one driver in terms of updates etc. This policy was clear especially from the beginning of 2013 and costly, results simply didn't justify it. Add to that costs of preparation for 2014, costs of losing technical personnel (Allison if money was the problem of course) and to make it on topic costs of possibly less than optimal driver line up in 2014. To put it simply they bet everything in the last two seasons in a row on Raikkonen's championship challenge and it didn't work, in 2013 car was good enough.

[iotar__]

No, they will need much more than that to fill the budget hole they created by overpaying Raikkonen for safe collecting points and ruining the team financially (not to mention lack of result).

Seriously, do you not realise how wrong that is?

How about this for wrong: taking bonus money for results that you didn't earn (Singapore, Bahrain, Germany, Singapore, Hungary (debatable)). but were gifted to you through team orders, do you think the right thing to do would be give it back? Unless contract included those - of course it's all a speculation. So on this note let's not digress silly season thread further .

Edit:
If it's not clear, taking highest possible contract from driver's point of view is completely normal, good for him, I mean it, my critique is on performance side. Speaking about Lotus in general, If you like F1 and are not a driver fanatic you were robbed of many, potentially interesting races, even half of Hungary or 3/4 of Germany were better and what China or Bahrain could have been. Add Malaysia & Spain, maybe Silverstone and especially normal Germany.

[marcush.]

has anyone an idea just how much Raikkonens retainer was ? And did he really get the negotiated and agreed moneys?I imagine it was not even close to the money he secured the team by:never crashing in races ,or better bringing the car hoome in so many races consecutively -only this year he had his first dnf ..and not his fault at all..
I think Kimi did not underperform he won races ,did he?

[Richard]

How about this for wrong: taking bonus money for results that you didn't earn (Singapore, Bahrain, Germany, Singapore, Hungary (debatable)). but were gifted to you through team orders

Well on that basis Fangio should be stripped of his prize money for his last WDC.

You seem to have a grudge against Raikkonen.

Lets get back on topic.

[stefan_]

How about this for wrong: taking bonus money for results that you didn't earn (Singapore, Bahrain, Germany, Singapore, Hungary (debatable)). but were gifted to you through team orders

Well on that basis Fangio should be stripped of his prize money for his last WDC.

You seem to have a grudge against Raikkonen.

Lets get back on topic.

Considering other posts he made, he has a grudge agains Lotus in general.

[munudeges]

How about this for wrong: taking bonus money for results that you didn't earn (Singapore, Bahrain, Germany, Singapore, Hungary (debatable)). but were gifted to you through team orders, do you think the right thing to do would be give it back?

So if you were let past at say, Hockenheim 2010 or even Monza 2013 then any driver should be giving some money back?

I really enjoy the hypocrisy when it comes to driver treatment and team orders....

It's hilarious if nothing else to look at the psychology of some people. What's even weirder is that he seems to big up Grosjean, not specifically because he's a fan, but to get back at one particular driver. Weird.

[shelly]

Last post on Italian Leo Turrini's blog (http://blog.quotidiano.net/turrini/2013 ... to-sicuro/) seem to suggest that the Ferrari-Raikkonen deal is done. Turrini has very reliable sources usually - this time he was having lunch with Domenicali.

Today Turrini takes pride in having been the first to give the news and reveals some more behind the scenes stories:
http://blog.quotidiano.net/turrini/2013 ... -kimi-bis/

[zeph]

Yes it appears they paid Raikkonen more than they could afford. The blame for that lies with Lotus not Raikkonen.

I'm not sure how their best performance for many years can be called a lack of results???

Best in years doesn't mean best possible, it depends on your reference point, in 2012 and especially in 2013 car was so good that much better results were possible....

..... To put it simply they bet everything in the last two seasons in a row on Raikkonen's championship challenge and it didn't work, in 2013 car was good enough.

edited for brevity

What makes you think the 2013 Lotus car is good enough? They had a lucky break in the beginning of the season because of the ridiculous tires, but beyond that the car has been average at best.

[djos]

Maybe a bit off topic now, but a lot of ppl were bashing munudeges for his comments about Marko vs Horner-Newey. There have been rumors about the 2 camps, here's a link.

http://grandprix247.com/2013/09/11/mark ... ouncement/

Of course there are two camps at Red Bull. Everyone with half a brain cell can see that.

If Ricciardo was good enough and everyone was happy then he would have been signed months ago and it would have been done with a little bit of fanfare - not at 9:30 at night. As it is, Ricciardo is in there to justify Marko's expensive driver programme that has produced no results and he is going to get utterly destroyed next year in the face of the opposition he faces and the new technical challenges. His results and points haul over the past two seasons, certainly against his team mate, point to absolutely nothing spectacular and raises some pretty serious question marks about his races. The usual suspects on this thread go very quiet when you point that out......

Horner and Newey both know this which is why they wanted someone else. It's as simple as that, and no, you don't have to be an 'insider' to see it. Anyone who doesn't is just making wishes.

So munu, why then had all the or video and announcements been completed by Horner etc if Marko was playing lone gunman and making the announcement and decision by himself?

Even mark Webber said a few weeks ago that it was all completed and basically giving the game away and he and Horner are friends and business partners. It well known there is no love lost between Marko and Webber!

[munudeges]

Read the link above. Marko announced what he wanted in Austria without so much as a word to Horner beforehand, hence the hasty press release. You don't have to be a genius to work out that's not a harmonious thing to be doing.

[SectorOne]

The driver programme has obviously produced results. Vettel was the starting point being sponsored by Red Bull since the early days and you have several young prospects coming through.

I also don´t buy the Marko - Horner-Newey thing. All three were talking and laughing together after the Monza GP.
If it´s war behind closed doors you don´t see that sort of thing, not even after a win.

[munudeges]

The talking and laughing public show is fundamentally at odds with how they're relating to each other on a professional basis.

As for the driver programme, all it has produced is Vettel and it's likely he would have been in Formula 1 anyway via BMW or another route. Torro Rosso has really been a joke team. Speed, Klien, Bourdais, firing drivers halfway through a season, firing drivers who fell out with Marko. Horner and Newey feel they should be making decisions based on what they feel they need to win, not to justify someone's expensive pet project.

[djos]

The talking and laughing public show is fundamentally at odds with how they're relating to each other on a professional basis.

As for the driver programme, all it has produced is Vettel and it's likely he would have been in Formula 1 anyway via BMW or another route. Torro Rosso has really been a joke team. Speed, Klien, Bourdais, firing drivers halfway through a season, firing drivers who fell out with Marko. Horner and Newey feel they should be making decisions based on what they feel they need to win, not to justify someone's expensive pet project.

Yet more feelpinions and no proof to back up your claims!

Keep digging away, this is fun!