Mercedes AMG F1 W04

[trinidefender]

Merc is most likely creating a heat pump between the brakes and the inflation gases in the rear wheel. Paradoxically, using the heat from the brakes as the energy source to cool the rear tyres.

Genius.

Errrr point 1. The airflow off of the brakes is much hotter than the rear tyres so the opposite is true, they heat up the tyres. Point 2. Pretty much all teams try to use the airflow from the brakes to control tyre temp

[GrandAxe]

Merc is most likely creating a heat pump between the brakes and the inflation gases in the rear wheel. Paradoxically, using the heat from the brakes as the energy source to cool the rear tyres.

Genius.

Errrr point 1. The airflow off of the brakes is much hotter than the rear tyres so the opposite is true, they heat up the tyres. Point 2. Pretty much all teams try to use the airflow from the brakes to control tyre temp

The fact that brake temps are so high makes them a suitable candidate as high quality heat sources to drive a thermodynamic engine. Why would Merc want to heat their tyres when their problem has always been overheating?

Heat pipes, vortex tubes etc are very straightforward devices that can be employed in a wheel.
I'm not saying this is the exact solution, but check this Wikipedia article on the vortex tube as an example of a very mechanically simple device that can be employed as a heat pump for cooling purposes, it is fed compressed air which it splits into a hot and a cold stream at either outlet. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vortex_tube


Courtesy Wikipedia

Here's a YouTube video showing how to make a DIY vortex tube:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g30FgZFgDTM[/youtube]

[SectorOne]

Could this heatsink during high speeds actually help keep heat in the tires and during lower speeds help dissipate it?

[GrandAxe]

If this is a heat sink, then its cooling the brake housing and heating the tyres which seems counter productive to Mercs problem of overheating the tyres.

[tpe]

If this is a heat sink, then its cooling the brake housing and heating the tyres which seems counter productive to Mercs problem of overheating the tyres.

How is that possible? They are placed on the rim, not on the brakes drum.

[Livingthedream]

They could be using the brake ducts to cool the area between the drum and the rim. This way they could tune it during practice and get the qualy/race pace balance as they see fit?

[GrandAxe]

If this is a heat sink, then its cooling the brake housing and heating the tyres which seems counter productive to Mercs problem of overheating the tyres.

How is that possible? They are placed on the rim, not on the brakes drum.

True, heat sinks tend to be in contact with the surface they are cooling, however the brake drum enclosure is definitely not an area you would expect to harvest cooling air for the tyres from; that area is far from cool and way too hot. Harvesting hot air is quite paradoxical to Mercs tyre cooling intentions.

Also, cooling fins, dimples or other structures don't have to be in contact with the brake drum to harvest heat from the enclosure, such heat can then be used to drive other not so obvious phenomena.

[trinidefender]

Well it honestly seems the new tyres were one of the major contributors to getting their degradation due to heat under control. Supposedly the new tyres operation window is something like 10 Celsius higher (don't quote me on that). Maybe this fact aligned with the cross pattern in the wheels puts them generally in the optimum temperature range

[mantikos]

Well it honestly seems the new tyres were one of the major contributors to getting their degradation due to heat under control. Supposedly the new tyres operation window is something like 10 Celsius higher (don't quote me on that). Maybe this fact aligned with the cross pattern in the wheels puts them generally in the optimum temperature range

No the operating temp is 10 degrees lower, the window is the same as the previous tires since the compounds haven't changed...please read about 50 pages ago

[PlatinumZealot]

One thing you can say for sure is that the rims primary purpose is for both convective cooling and radiant cooling.
The black paint is a give-away sign.

RedBull also have black inner rims donkey's years ago i believe.

[trinidefender]

Well it honestly seems the new tyres were one of the major contributors to getting their degradation due to heat under control. Supposedly the new tyres operation window is something like 10 Celsius higher (don't quote me on that). Maybe this fact aligned with the cross pattern in the wheels puts them generally in the optimum temperature range

No the operating temp is 10 degrees lower, the window is the same as the previous tires since the compounds haven't changed...please read about 50 pages ago

I stand corrected but then it has the same effect. Tyres on average run cooler because of the construction changes yet the operating window is the same. As mercedes used to have their tyres running to hot the 10 degree reduction in average temp might have put them exactly into the operating window.

[mantikos]

Well it honestly seems the new tyres were one of the major contributors to getting their degradation due to heat under control. Supposedly the new tyres operation window is something like 10 Celsius higher (don't quote me on that). Maybe this fact aligned with the cross pattern in the wheels puts them generally in the optimum temperature range

No the operating temp is 10 degrees lower, the window is the same as the previous tires since the compounds haven't changed...please read about 50 pages ago

I stand corrected but then it has the same effect. Tyres on average run cooler because of the construction changes yet the operating window is the same. As mercedes used to have their tyres running to hot the 10 degree reduction in average temp might have put them exactly into the operating window.

Right, and Mercedes needed a 20 degree drop - 10 came from upgrades and 10 from the tyres (of course the numbers aren't precise and are from various articles about this issue)

[turbof1]

I don't think the updates and the change in tyres can be (fully) culminated. A big chunk of the hard work mercedes put in before the tyre change can be reasonably be assumed to be discarded. I neither believe they were at any point 20 degrees celcius outside the window. Even 10 degrees sounds too much; between 4 to 8 sounds a lot more reasonable.

The biggest issue with the pre-hungary tyres wasn't the operating window itself, but the way the tyres absorbed and dissipated heat. The new tyres are easier to cool down or if needed, to heat up. For anyone with some understanding in statistics: if we assume the operating window to be a normal distribution in degrees celcius, it is save to say both the old and new tyres have the same mean, but the 95% window would be much bigger with the old one.

[smlbstcbr]

Webber(???) said that Mercedes were quite hot, he felt they were significantly hot after being behind them in the race.

[stefan_]

Singapore 2013 - Tursday (19.09.2013)





via AMuS