More Impressive Win?

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More Impressive win

VET- 2008 Monza GP(Starts from pole, RAI starts 14th, HAM starts 15th)
22
55%
MAL-2012 Spain GP(Starts from Pole, ALO starts 2nd, RAI starts 4th, HAM starts 24th)
18
45%
 
Total votes: 40

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Powershift
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Joined: 16 Mar 2012, 04:32

More Impressive Win?

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Trying to make some space on my DVR I went back and watched last years 2012 Spain GP and came to the conclusion that Maldonado's first(and maybe last) F1 win was far more impressive than Vettel's at Monza 2008.

Maldonado, staying with Alonso, at his home GP, and then although not passing him on track but putting in great laps to pass him during the pits, and then holding off the determined Alonso was quite impressive and unexpected to me. Much more so than Vettel winning after a crazy qualifying that left all the fast cars/drivers at the tail end of the starting grid.

Am I the only person that came out with the same impression that Maldonado's win was much more impressive?
Winning is the most important. Everything is consequence of that. Being second is to be the first of the ones who lose.-Ayrton Senna

ChrisF1
ChrisF1
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But wait, everybody on here says that the 2012 Ferrari was awful and Alonso performed a miracle to fight for the championship. If Maldonado could only just beat a rubbish car, it wasn't an impressive win.

Ok, piss taking aside, I don't think it was impressive as Vettel because the tyres played such a factor in 2012, hence why the pecking order for the first 8 races was so crazy and elevated a 5th/6th place at best Williams to the top of the standings.

Just got lucky for me.

Vettel won in 2008 by performing on Saturday and then again on Sunday in awful conditions.

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Websta
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Joined: 05 Feb 2012, 15:18

Re: More Impressive Win?

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Maldonado's win was more impressive for me because he was in a tight race with Alonso for much of the race, and because it was dry.

That actually seems strange that I think Maldonado's was more impressive despite being tighter than Vettel's win, but anyway.

wesley123
wesley123
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Joined: 23 Feb 2008, 17:55

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I don't think either of those are impressive. They just did what was expected from them.

Maldonado was helped by the Pirelli tires, Vettel was helped by the weather conditions and the top drivers starting further back on the grid.
"Bite my shiny metal ass" - Bender

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gary123
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Joined: 12 Jan 2013, 20:49
Location: Italy

Re: More Impressive Win?

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Button Montreal 2011. That was a impressive win!

ChrisF1
ChrisF1
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Schumacher, Spain 1996.

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SectorOne
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Joined: 26 May 2013, 09:51

Re: More Impressive Win?

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Maldonado win. Only Hamilton was away from stealing the win whereas in Monza 08, Kubica, Hamilton and Raikkonen were far away from winning.

It´s quite amazing he actually won that one Maldonado. For one week the car went from dog to yea pretty solid and he just does it.
With Alonso hounding him the entire race.
"If the only thing keeping a person decent is the expectation of divine reward, then brother that person is a piece of sh*t"

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Ciro Pabón
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Well, both are good wins.

The most impressive win I've seen is Fangio, Nordschlieffe, 1957. Ten laps to the end, 45 seconds behind the leaders after a disastrous pit stop, he warmed his tyres in the first of the laps and found himself 52 seconds short. He gained six seconds in the next three laps. Now there were only seven laps left and he had to earn 7 seconds per lap...

He broke the lap record for the Nordschlieffe at every lap from then on. First, he went 7 seconds under the record, then 8, then 3.8 seconds. Nobody has ever seen anything remotely similar. When you're hard driven, you drive harder.

He had an off track moment that was tremendous. After the race, engineer Alfieri checked the suspension and found it wasn't working. That is a victory, the others are wins.

Is not that Maldonado and Vettel aren't extremely good, is that it is hard to be impressed after watching this... Move at 10:45 approximately and you will save a lot of time
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OUcyO9K4EU0[/youtube]
Ciro

mnmracer
mnmracer
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Joined: 17 Sep 2011, 23:41

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You're missing one massive detail (well, two related ones): the rain
Not only did Vettel win in 'the great equalizer', the rain.
But he did so with a dry weather set-up.
Any win with a wrong set-up is impressive, but even more so for a rookie in a midfield car.

Vettel age 21, 5th car racing season
Maldonado age 27, 9th car racing season

As for most impressive wins ever, there are so many, trying to put one over the other would just

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Powershift
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Joined: 16 Mar 2012, 04:32

Re: More Impressive Win?

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gary123 wrote:Button Montreal 2011. That was a impressive win!
not really
Winning is the most important. Everything is consequence of that. Being second is to be the first of the ones who lose.-Ayrton Senna

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gary123
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Joined: 12 Jan 2013, 20:49
Location: Italy

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Powershift wrote:
gary123 wrote:Button Montreal 2011. That was a impressive win!
not really
What? He had a crazy race, and he won it at the last lap. He had a drive through, a tire puncture and he didn't made any mistakes. No One could have done it. That day Jenson was superb.

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Ciro Pabón
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mnmracer wrote:... As for most impressive wins ever, there are so many, trying to put one over the other would just
... would just make my day.

I think you could agree to this point: it's not "the most impressive win ever". That should have to be written at the end of the world times or at least (god forbids), at the end of F1 racing history *may the day never come*. I'm talking 'bout the most impressive win you have seen.

Vanity is one despicable thing, so to say "that's the most impressive win ever" is kind of foolish, but to say "that's the most impressive win I've seen" proves two things: first, you have a good memory and secondly, you have a heart. I do have a heart (it's beating right now)... not to mention a possible good taste that makes you (NOT ME) discriminate between last race and, let's put it mildly, other races.

So, a short list could be this one, for me, in no particular order:

(... and no, I'm not counting Maldonado nor Vettel, sorry for the OOT, I'm just trying to find a way to spend time this beautiful morning: blame it on a deep blue high sky and a good coffee, and, moreover, because I never wanted this forum, when I posted, back in the times, to become a repetition of AutoSports threads but a particularly peculiar good one):

Alan vs Alain, Germany, 1981

Alan Jones vs Alain Prost: how many times are we going to see two drivers like these two, in these cars, that seemed like manta rays, with full down force effect, on those slicks with those turbocharged engines, side by side, curve after curve, in a pretty decent track, with no rain and even with the same first name (Alain, Alan)? I cannot say never, but I find it highly improbable.

It may sound sad to you, padawans, but you'll never see again limitless downforce in, what's for all practical purposes, cars with limitless horsepower and huge, beautifully huge slicks. I defy you to stop watching this win. In the end you don't care who wins, and that's what distinguishes victories from wins
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QzyNJWXwBlI[/youtube]

Let's give another couple of victories and stop here (I'll be back, sorry for the threat, I have to fix lunch and then I have to go swimming a while, so it might take some time before I try to take this thread again into the wilderness of OOT, wilderness I delight into).

Button (yes, him), Canada, 2011

Yes, I know. I really know. Button is not highly regarded by many (even me!) but this race was incredible. If he's not good, then he's the luckiest dog alive. Sometimes the gods make you come back from thirtieth to first, in the longest F1 race in history, taking more than four hours, after having pitted six times (six times, mother of god!) and then finding you in a position where you can overcome Alonso, Schumacher and Vettel, but I bet those times aren't too many times. Let's the video speak for itself.

For the love of Pete, the guy collided with his own team mate (Hamilton) and with Alonso and then he finds he can overtake Vettel for first place? You must be playing fvck-mind-him with me...
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bF82p0jE7PY[/youtube]

Schumacher, the evil one, Spa, 1995

Let's Michael be Michael, all right? Yeah, I know he's no peach, I know he banged wheels, he banged teammates and he banged even Corina and he's despicably evil and he has crooked teeth and he is evil (did I already say that? Probably because he's evil! :) ) and he ate babies for breakfast, or so I think. However, he was young once and he took chances nobody took. So, to stay in the rain with slicks and to force Damon Hill, the impenetrable, to say "F1 cars are not karts" at Spa it's something special. Another victory in my tally (I did NOT say another "best victory evar", all rightie? Nag me at your own peril).

Everybody was spinning but him. For those of you in racing, this movie shows what a racing line is and always will be
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8zYGkKzqco0[/youtube]

Villeneuve, Jarama, 1981

The words of the designer of this piece-of-----in-red, disguised as a car, speak for themselves and I quote “That car…had literally one quarter of the downforce that, say Williams or Brabham had. It had a power advantage over the Cosworths for sure, but it also had massive throttle lag at that time. In terms of sheer ability I think Gilles was on a different plane to the other drivers. To win those races, the 1981 GPs at Monaco and Jarama — on tight circuits — was quite out of this world. I know how bad that car was.” Frankly, guys, I cannot believe Alonso complains as he does, he has not my memory and he has to deliver, I know: it's not his fault, but mine, but I like my faults.

Last but not the least, no more words, just blurring images. Villeneuve, the kid we loved when he was alive and idolized after he died a fiery, sad and glorious death, the gentleman, the fastest guy in the universe, in a poorly designed car getting a victory that will go into history (that, or my name is not Enzo!) :) ... how many times have you seen the victor holding back not one but four cars?
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4ZnWYiCywo[/youtube]

I really, really wish to talk about Clark at the 1963 Belgian GP, but this deserves even more time. Just check this picture and tell me you don't feel something weird inside:

Image

I know few will watch those things I surreptitiously (hah!) brought into this (up to the moment, apologies) very decent thread, but some will do and they will find they also have a heart.
Ciro

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GitanesBlondes
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Joined: 30 Jul 2013, 20:16

Re: More Impressive Win?

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I love you Ciro.
"I don't want to make friends with anybody. I don't give a sh*t for fame. I just want to win." -Nelson Piquet

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GitanesBlondes
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Joined: 30 Jul 2013, 20:16

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The only remarkable thing I found about Maldonado's 2012 win, was that he was able to keep himself under control for the duration of the entire grand prix. Beyond that, it doesn't hold a candle to any of the examples Ciro has given us in this topic. The stars aligned perfectly in Barcelona in honor of Sir Frank's 70th birthday.

One race victory I think deserves an honorable mention is Jim Clark's win at Zandvoort 1967, with the debut of the Lotus-Cosworth 49.

Why?

Jimmy had not even driven the car till it showed up at Zandvoort. It's difficult to put in real terms what a stark departure the 49 was from anything in existence at that point in time. Reliability was unknown. To learn how drive the car over the first 10 to 15 laps before dropping the hammer to take victory was something else.
"I don't want to make friends with anybody. I don't give a sh*t for fame. I just want to win." -Nelson Piquet

Lycoming
Lycoming
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Joined: 25 Aug 2011, 22:58

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Senna Monaco '88.

Oh wait...