The weight limits need changed.

[flmkane]

LOL! My comparison simply spark a lot of fiery responses. Relax, I have not murdered anyone.

I guess glamorous F1 drivers can't change weight for various reason. Note, F1 drivers are glamorous, even if they have a tough training schedule. Please, it is not necessary to defend them on this. And i have the utmost respect for them.

Personally, I think Tour De France is the toughest sporting event but i think no one here knows for sure.

In conclusion, i think it is sad that Hulkenburg will never get a top drive in F1 because of his weight and height. Touring car, Le Mans or even WRC are other avenues for him to conquer. Does that mean Massa will get a good seat in 2014? If so, That would really suck!!

One thing is you must understand about UFC fighters is that pre weigh in weight is NOT the same as fighting weight. They have a full day to get their bodily fluids back to a normal level before fighting.

F1 drivers would HAVE to perform in very very extreme conditions, WHILE they are dehydrated. Completely scenario. Probably a few dead drivers would be the result.

[JimClarkFan]

I think motorsports is simply where smaller guys should have the advantage. there's no need to equalize things.
Looking into other sports it's plain to see that certain heights, weights, styles have an advantage. I don't think we should artificially neutralize what could be a variable of interest in the sport.
Look on all the champions in f1 and you will notice a trend in their height, and weight.
F1 is simply like horse racing. The short guys have an advantage. The taller guys need to beat them on other fronts.
Just like in track and feild, boxing, wrestling, there's always something a player can do if he is disadvantaged in some way.


can someone list all tha champions in the past with their height and weight?
i can bet they're mostly shrimps like jackie stewart, or medium height like shumi and hamilton.

It is about much more than a simple advantage. We are referring to complete exclusion from Formula 1 because of weight. That is a precedent, it has never been the norm. I can't think of any time when people were excluded because of their weight - now it is a real possibility.

I am continually confused as to why other keep referring F1 to other sports. We are not talking about a sport that has traditionally selected winners simply because they were small. Fangio, Ascari, Hill, Hunt and Button weren't small.

[hollus]

The seat ballast idea is brilliant and easy to implement. Even easier, take it out of the seat, define a standard box 2cm deep, 20 cm wide and 30 cm tall, place it right behind the survival cell, at around hip height, and mandate it filled with standard blocks of either plastic or tungsten, arranged symmetrically. This way one can accommodate around 20Kg of ballast in an exactly defined c.o.g. Brilliant, simple, effective... and yet not!

Reductio ad absurdum #1: Small drivers still get a polar moment of inertia advantage.

Reduction ad absurdum #2: This all started to accommodate a "tall" driver, who speaks of himself as "tall", and is 1.74m, or 5'9'' (edit: my bad, he is actually 1.84m). That's not tall! I am taller than that (edit: not any more, lol) and I was too small to play competitive volleyball or basketball. Almost the whole country I live in is taller than that, including most women! If we make a rule for him, are we then going to accommodate drivers who are 1.90m? And 2.05m? Then we are talking of moving the airbox, or moving the front axle, or banning the lay down position of the driver (hi, road relevance!). Plus, such (real life) tall drivers, would never have made it through the learning categories anyways, because they were too tall!

[netoperek]

In lets say, basketball, any player WILL have a benefits (or lack of them) of his physical characteristics and those WILL affect his game style and effectiveness at all times, regardless of conditions and equipment. Thats the nature of this sport. The same cannot be said about motorsport. Advantage can be different depending on the series or rule set. Physical characteristics, that cannot be trained are not and definitely shouldn't be the factor that disqualifies a racer. His job is to drive a car, not winning the jump height contest.
Leaving physical attributes a deciding factor in motorsport is like limiting height in NBA 2013 videogame depending on who is hitting a keyboard to make it "more realistic". Where's the point?

[xpensive]

Is Vettel's 176cm (5'-9'') only 58kg (128 lb), no wonder his head looks so unprortionally big and why Webber's frame is a problem?

Btw, has anyone ever seen a race-horse jockey more that 5'-3''? An outrageous injustice to tall people isn't it?

[JimClarkFan]

The seat ballast idea is brilliant and easy to implement. Even easier, take it out of the seat, define a standard box 2cm deep, 20 cm wide and 30 cm tall, place it right behind the survival cell, at around hip height, and mandate it filled with standard blocks of either plastic or tungsten, arranged symmetrically. This way one can accommodate around 20Kg of ballast in an exactly defined c.o.g. Brilliant, simple, effective... and yet not!

Reductio ad absurdum #1: Small drivers still get a polar moment of inertia advantage.

Reduction ad absurdum #2: This all started to accommodate a "tall" driver, who speaks of himself as "tall", and is 1.74m, or 5'9''. That's not tall! I am taller than that and I was too small to play competitive volleyball or basketball. Almost the whole country I live in is taller than that, including most women! If we make a rule for him, are we then going to accommodate drivers who are 1.90m? And 2.05m? Then we are talking of moving the airbox, or moving the front axle, or banning the lay down position of the driver (hi, road relevance!). Plus, such (real life) tall drivers, would never have made it through the learning categories anyways, because they were too tall!

Hulkenburg is 1.74m? - I think not.

The thread is about weight limits, it says so in the title. Reduction ad absurdum 2 isn't even addressing the point of the thread - we are talking about WEIGHT. As for point 1, no one is suggesting that we try to make the playing field exactly the same for everyone.

Let me reiterate since many are misinterpreting what I am suggesting.

The new regulations for next year is putting up a new barrier for the continuation of heavier drivers from Formula 1. This is a precedent and an unexpected consequence of the engine/power train and ERS system coming in much heavier than expected. The FIA have at their disposal, the ability to change technical regulations to ensure that Formula 1 doesn't become the domain of small light weight drivers. Unless mitigating regulations are put in place to counteract the 2014 regulations and their unexpected consequences heavier drivers seem likely to be force out. Currently there is a wide range of physiques on the grid, the new regulations could potentially change that forever and make F1 the domain of lighter drivers only - further narrowing the pool of talent that F1 can select for and the potentially preventing the most talented drivers from entering F1.

Take note, changing the regulations to ensure that heavier drivers can still partake in F1 is to enable the maintenance of the status quo in terms of the pool from which formula 1 teams can select drivers.

Is Vettel's 176cm (5'-9'') only 58kg (128 lb), no wonder his head looks so unprortionally big and why Webber's frame is a problem?

Btw, has anyone ever seen a race-horse jockey more that 5'-3''? An outrageous injustice to tall people isn't it?]

IT IS NOT ABOUT THIS.

It is the new rules being brought forward this year which is preventing taller drivers from being in Formula 1. What we are asking for is that rules be ammended to ensure that we don't force the heavier drivers out.

[SectorOne]

Btw, has anyone ever seen a race-horse jockey more that 5'-3''? An outrageous injustice to tall people isn't it?

Why are you so fixed on height when it´s weight this thread is about?

[ringo]

There is a connection with height and weight.
It's very likely that an F1 driver needs to be fit to race for 2hrs. I don't think you will find a driver who is 5'4" who's going to be heavier than the tallest driver, and his team wont have a problem with his fitness level.
In fact, Kimi's weight compared to the others of similar is a good indicator of his fitness level. We all know he's not the fittest fiddle.

I don't think anything should be done to accomodat heavier drivers. Might as well we make accommodations for obese people with extra wide cockpits and a mouse pad instead of a steering wheel. Ditch the drink bottle for a feed slurry tank.

Motorsport is no different than any other sport. There will always be a body type that is most suited. Just like how there are certain characteristics of the car's design that is suited for making it fast.
Lighter and smaller is better in Formula1, the driver is no exception. Given equal cars, and equal talent, the lighter driver will stop the clock first.
Not to say a tall driver will be neglected. It's his ability to overcome his disadvantage that should merit him getting a drive. He simply has to live with the facts that he's at a disadvantage. Just like a short basketball player, a shrimpy american football player, or even a one armed hockey player.

Tall drivers aren't a necessity, fast drivers are. No point in creating some kind of segregation between tall and short. It's the guy that puts the time in the green or purple that gets the seat.

[JimClarkFan]

Tall drivers aren't a necessity, fast drivers are. No point in creating some kind of segregation between tall and short. It's the guy that puts the time in the green or purple that gets the seat.

And Hulkenberg is all those things yet we have team bosses coming out and saying he won't be considered because of the weight restrictions.

So we have a heavier driver, who by most peoples judgement is one of the brightest talents on the grid, being overlooked despite the fact that he is known to be pretty fast and known to be a good racer and has beaten every team mate put in front of him in F1.

Logical?

It seems like many are disagreeing with the notion of adjusting regulations to address driver weight, but are then citing the exact same reasoning which is being used to justify why some of us want a change to the regs in the first place.

[bhall]

Tall drivers aren't a necessity, fast drivers are. No point in creating some kind of segregation between tall and short. It's the guy that puts the time in the green or purple that gets the seat.

And that is the point exactly, a heavier driver, who by most peoples judgement is one of the brightest talents on the grid, is being overlooked despite the fact that he is held in high regard up and down the pit lane and known to be pretty fast and a good racer.

So what is the excuse now.

I think Hulkenberg's size is the excuse. McLaren simply have someone else in mind...

https://twitter.com/SportmphMark/status ... 9049976832

[SectorOne]

If Alonso goes to Mclaren there´s only one driver in the field that has no problem going alongside world champions.
They all say they will but when it really comes down to it it´s a different story.

There is a connection with height and weight.

It´s not a law by any means though. How you are built is the key and ultimately determines how low you can go.
You can have two drivers in identical height but one is able to weigh much less.

[JimClarkFan]

Tall drivers aren't a necessity, fast drivers are. No point in creating some kind of segregation between tall and short. It's the guy that puts the time in the green or purple that gets the seat.

And that is the point exactly, a heavier driver, who by most peoples judgement is one of the brightest talents on the grid, is being overlooked despite the fact that he is held in high regard up and down the pit lane and known to be pretty fast and a good racer.

So what is the excuse now.

I think Hulkenberg's size is the excuse. McLaren simply have someone else in mind...

https://twitter.com/SportmphMark/status ... 9049976832

The thought had crossed my mind that McLaren were offering up a contentious excuse to get the media off their back.
Oddly enough, the only person I would rather see in a Mclaren than Hulkenberg at this moment is Alonso.
Nevertheless other drivers have been vocal on the issue, Hulkenbergs plight is the most worrying though.

[ringo]

Is there any substance to the marginalization of Hulkenberg?
If he's faster while being taller and heavier, then there's no reason he can't get a drive.
However if the cars are so advanced that really and truly all you need is a living being in the cockpit, then i could see why teams would take the easier route and go with a smaller driver.
If i put myself in a team principal's shoes, i guess a simulator test would make me determine if i should hire Hulk over the likes of a Massa, who may be less capable.

Making the cars heavier wont do much for the racing however. It's too much of penalty to pay for creativing a balance that would go largely unforseen by the audience. And the smaller drivers will still have an advantage, as placing ballst near their seats will still have a lower COG than a taller driver. on the other hand, it may also seem unfair to the lighter driver to put dead weight outside of his body, while the heavier driver has live weight which is more central.

[strad]

There are already quality drivers excluded by their size today, hell there are drivers excluded because they aren't pretty enough or smooth on camera and not just in F1.
That said, if it were me I would think that it's kinda unfair that a guy that could challenge today would be thrown out with the trash if he couldn't shave off even more weight.

[xpensive]

Btw, has anyone ever seen a race-horse jockey more that 5'-3''? An outrageous injustice to tall people isn't it?

Why are you so fixed on height when it´s weight this thread is about?

If I'm not completely mistaken, for equally fit people like F1 drivers, there should be a direct connection between the two?

With the xception of Vettel of course, his 58 kg over 176 cm is remarkable, not many ladies with that relation.