IndyCar Series

[munudeges]

Professionalism like this ?

or professionalism like that ?

Formula 1 is heading in that direction I'm afraid. That's what happens when you increasingly standardise a racing Formula and start pushing races out to places that really shouldn't be holding them at all with marshals that can't marshal. Indy is a salutary lesson for Formula 1 as to how that happens which it doesn't seem to be paying attention to.

Pointing fingers at Formula 1 and somehow claiming without quite saying it that Indycar is somehow not as bad isn't telling anyone anything. Formula 1 will have unstable cars tearing themselves to pieces with bits flying into crowds and idiotic team bosses riding scooters on to a track where a driver is being attended to sooner than we think.

Meanwhile IRL buries it's head in the sand and still thinks every death is a one off and breathes a sigh of relief after every near miss.

[munudeges]

https://scontent-a-ord.xx.fbcdn.net/hph ... 9330_n.jpg

My goodness. What kind of track surface is that?

[Huntresa]

https://scontent-a-ord.xx.fbcdn.net/hph ... 9330_n.jpg

My goodness. What kind of track surface is that?

Concrete/cement slabs aka Autobahn ?

[GitanesBlondes]

Professionalism like this ?

or professionalism like that ?

Formula 1 is heading in that direction I'm afraid. That's what happens when you increasingly standardise a racing Formula and start pushing races out to places that really shouldn't be holding them at all with marshals that can't marshal. Indy is a salutary lesson for Formula 1 as to how that happens which it doesn't seem to be paying attention to.

Pointing fingers at Formula 1 and somehow claiming without quite saying it that Indycar is somehow not as bad isn't telling anyone anything. Formula 1 will have unstable cars tearing themselves to pieces with bits flying into crowds and idiotic team bosses riding scooters on to a track where a driver is being attended to sooner than we think.

Meanwhile IRL buries it's head in the sand and still thinks every death is a one off and breathes a sigh of relief after every near miss.

IRL is a mere footnote in America these days, so most people don't really care what goes on there regarding safety. The media cycle is always looking for a new story, so even after Danny Wheldon was killed, the focus shifted to other stories as attention spans seem to be at an all-time low.

If they were still drawing the sorts of crowds they were 20 years ago when it was CART, the mentality might have changed as more attention does a lot to change things. IRL's mentality seems to be where F1's was prior to Senna's death, but IRL has no driver that attracts the level of attention that guys like Senna or Mansell did.

[lizardfolk]

One more thing before I talk about the ICS (it doesn't really matter but you guys should know that the IRL was Tony George's pet and the merged "ICS" is current IndyCar that's more like a combination of CART and old IRL).

The Pirelli World Challenge cars are just marvelous to watch. I wish that series was more popular and had a bigger grid. Those GTs are just fantastic.

Now... back to the ICS

Formula 1 will have unstable cars tearing themselves to pieces with bits flying into crowds

First and foremost it must be said that the DW12 needs to be shed parts when it crashes due to the massive force that accompanies any oval crash. The biggest problem is that on the road course this kind of design isn't necessary and that's why you see so many parts shed on an indycar when it crashes. Yes this makes road courses a little more dangerous on IndyCar, but really the only scenario where this can be solved is if Indycar completely stops going to ovals like the old ChampCar which.

1. will never happen
2. shouldn't happen.

Ovals are always a part of IndyCar and that must be kept in mind when watching IndyCar as the car is supposed to be the perfect middle ground between ovals and road course designs. Watch IndyCar crash on an oval and you will see that it's not as "poorly designed" as you make it out to be.

Formula 1 is heading in that direction I'm afraid. That's what happens when you increasingly standardise a racing Formula and start pushing races out to places that really shouldn't be holding them at all with marshals that can't marshal.

The pirelli fiasco happened at Silverstone. The F1 Marussia reverse backwards happened at Nurburgring (which has never ever ever ever happened in IndyCar before btw and doubt ever will). Are these the places that "really shouldn't be holding races with marshals that can't marshal". Sounds like you're spewing a lot of bollocks just to sling mud at IndyCar.

Keep in mind I watch and follow IndyCar just as much as F1. It's why I'm here actually because I am an F1 fan. So don't be making stuff up assuming that I wont catch it. F1 and IndyCar are two of my favorite series.

and idiotic team bosses riding scooters on to a track where a driver is being attended to sooner than we think.

You're making a bigger deal of that then it really is. IndyCar is a bit of a party. Sure. I see nothing wrong with that and, honestly, watching the races it never seems like anyone in IndyCar is making light of what they are doing once the green flag flies.

You want unprofessional conduct? Try this

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rpVuPHi1Hx8[/youtube]

Meanwhile IRL buries it's head in the sand and still thinks every death is a one off and breathes a sigh of relief after every near miss.

The DW12 is a far safer design than the IR07 especially on the ovals. Franchitti's crash at Houston is no different than Grosjean's crash at Monaco. Only the fence needed a lot more work and it's the only thing I would fault IndyCar. Houston was a little rushed and IndyCar's Derek Walker had already stated that this procedure needs a lot more work.

Fences need to be better. Crowd placement needs to be smarter. Other than that, IndyCar is fine. The fact that IndyCar has kept Mike Conway and Will Power safe from this

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ZsfEGlQRLk[/youtube]

Tells you all you need to know about IndyCar's DW12 safety on the ovals. The IR07 was a bit of a death trap. The ChampCar's DP01 actually injured people from minor accidents at Long Beach. I would say the DW12 is finally a much more modern car in terms of safety especially on the ovals.

https://scontent-a-ord.xx.fbcdn.net/hph ... 9330_n.jpg

My goodness. What kind of track surface is that?

A track for people who don't like super smooth sterile Tilkedomes.

IRL's mentality seems to be where F1's was prior to Senna's death, but IRL has no driver that attracts the level of attention that guys like Senna or Mansell did.

I would say Dan Wheldon was a pretty big deal when he died in 2011. Actually ICS doesn't go to cookie cutter ovals anymore literally because of Wheldon's death. Those types of ovals are just deemed too unsafe now for any IndyCar no matter what... despite... well...

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MR6tUS95U0M[/youtube]

Now excuse me while I gush about the PWC

Preview:

https://scontent-a-ord.xx.fbcdn.net/hph ... 9330_n.jpg

https://scontent-b-ord.xx.fbcdn.net/hph ... 8421_n.jpg

Oh my god! I wish I was there for that GT race. And the fact that Euro GT3s are allowed with American rule GTs just makes this series so fantastic. Goddammit PWC should be way more popular than it is now and it should go to Europe!

[Pierce89]

What is the point of the rear bumper if cars still get launched into the air?

The point of the rear "bumper" has nothing to do with a bumper. It's to reduce drag so they can run the ovals with only around 550hp and do the same speeds the IR07 did with 650hp

[FW17]

What is the point of the rear bumper if cars still get launched into the air?

The point of the rear "bumper" has nothing to do with a bumper. It's to reduce drag so they can run the ovals with only around 550hp and do the same speeds the IR07 did with 650hp

Ok, did not know that.

First and foremost it must be said that the DW12 needs to be shed parts when it crashes due to the massive force that accompanies any oval crash. The biggest problem is that on the road course this kind of design isn't necessary and that's why you see so many parts shed on an indycar when it crashes. Yes this makes road courses a little more dangerous on IndyCar, but really the only scenario where this can be solved is if Indycar completely stops going to ovals like the old ChampCar which.

1. will never happen
2. shouldn't happen.

Ovals are always a part of IndyCar and that must be kept in mind when watching IndyCar as the car is supposed to be the perfect middle ground between ovals and road course designs. Watch IndyCar crash on an oval and you will see that it's not as "poorly designed" as you make it out to be.

F1 cars crash structures are meant to do the exact same thing, dissipate energy from the crash. What is crazy with the DW12 is quiet often the wheels come off the car, don't they use wheel tethers?

Another thing worrying about about the car, what happened to the side impact protection structure? did it get completely sheered off?


IRL is doing a great job (at least trying) but they seem to keep missing the mark. They could have speced the car better for starters, demanded more from the car maker, but they seem to have missed that. They could have better selection of tracks demanding more safety from the the track as in F1, runnoffs in F1 tracks may be crazy but it limits the number of safety car interruptions and gives a much higher finish rate (also keeping repair bills down). They never seem to have any other flagship event other than indy, with calendar being shuffled around that it is hard to call any IRL track a classic.

[lizardfolk]

F1 cars crash structures are meant to do the exact same thing, dissipate energy from the crash. What is crazy with the DW12 is quiet often the wheels come off the car, don't they use wheel tethers?

It does but from an oval impact it needs to disspate a little more energy than necessary for a car strictly for road course. the wheel tethers is a proper complaint however Indycar should take queues from F1 in regards to that.

IRL is doing a great job (at least trying) but they seem to keep missing the mark. They could have speced the car better for starters, demanded more from the car maker, but they seem to have missed that. They could have better selection of tracks demanding more safety from the the track as in F1, runnoffs in F1 tracks may be crazy but it limits the number of safety car interruptions and gives a much higher finish rate (also keeping repair bills down). They never seem to have any other flagship event other than indy, with calendar being shuffled around that it is hard to call any IRL track a classic.

These are more proper complaints against ICS and I will always admit that ICS is never perfect. In fact far from it. The schedule for Indy is always quite random. F1's fairly stable which is what ICS is trying but honestly ICS usually has problems getting tracks to stay around due to horrendous ratings in TV.

Quite a bit of people go to these races. Brazil was sold out. Houston was pretty closed to selling out as well. But the fact that Brazil sold out and is still in trouble of leaving the schedule tells you how badly IndyCar just does on TV. So really the schedule fluctuations isn't really that easily solvable if at all.

The street tracks will get better... as what the CEO said after Houston. But honestly, even with the annoying safety cars, I still prefer the very rough and tumble tracks of IndyCar. It's a personal preference. But even if there was absolutely no passing at Houston, I would have just loved to see those cars muscle around such a rough and low grip surface. It just makes IndyCar look so wild which is something a lot of open wheel series have lost imo. Honestly that's part of the reason why IndyCar can be a crashfest. These guys have tons of trouble keeping the car on the track let alone race each other. If you go to a tamer track like Mid-Ohio these guys can run green to green without any real incidents.

Again... I like how rough the Indy street circuits are. And the layouts are designed well enough to allow for a lot of passing and it really requires IndyCar drivers to be incredibly brave in order to pass and a lot of them manage to do it. So all that combined together makes a pretty good package so I'm willing to forgive the yellows for that

[Huntresa]

Maybe if Indycar tried to get a race or two in Europe ? Would that perhaps attract abit more attention from viewers both in America and the rest of the world ? Thats if they wanna grow ofc. I mean its quite clear that NASCAR can handle just being in America, with that type of racing which is more compelling to most americans, which leads to that if Indy wants to grow they need to go to Europe or atleast more abroad and attract sponsors who arent necesarily american.

[xpensive]

Never bothered much with IRL, judging by sponsors like National Guard and RC Cola, there's not much money in it, is it?

[FW17]

I see poor quality of tracks as reason for poor television rating. Guys roughing and tripping over may look cool but the TV audience just not up to it.

And the US time zone is just not helpful for global audience. But still IRL must be having atleast 30 million viewers per race (have no idea).

[FW17]

Never bothered much with IRL, judging by sponsors like National Guard and RC Cola, there's not much money in it, is it?

Same can be said abt Nascar sponsors

[hairy_scotsman]

Brazil was sold out. Houston was pretty closed to selling out as well.

Anyone heard any attendance numbers yet for Houston?

[hairy_scotsman]

[wesley123]

Never bothered much with IRL, judging by sponsors like National Guard and RC Cola, there's not much money in it, is it?

Or sponsors like Target, Go Daddy!, DHL and Verizon