Did I say he did?FoxHound wrote:Did Webber "Run over" Vettel?
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Did I say he did?FoxHound wrote:Did Webber "Run over" Vettel?
He did the exact same thing as Félix Serrallés: used his car deliberately to hit his opponent. Purely an act of agression which has nothing, but really absolutely nothing to do with circuit racing.mnmracer wrote: I do, that's why I added "sweeping move towards another driver". But he did not run over Hamilton.
We've already seen how inconsistently penalties are applied. There's no base standards among FIA Stewardship since the same move by two different drivers can have wildly different penalties associated with it...or even a lack of penalties.henra wrote:That may well be the case.GitanesBlondes wrote: I'd add as an addendum to what he speaks of regarding circuit safety, being applicable to car safety as well. The trade off for much safer cars is that drivers have little regard for making contact with one another on the circuit.
Still, the fix should not be to make F1 or any other racing series effectively more dangerous again. Allan Simonsen is certainly enough for all the High Profile Racing Series for this year (and next year for that matter).
The fix to such behaviour needs to be simply a clear enforcement of the rules by handing out unmistakable and noticeable penalties. In this case for instance an immediate suspension from the racing series and revocation of the licence for one year or something of similarly noticeable severity.
Except the Senna was explicit that he'd take Prost out of the race if Senna wasn't in font.stefan_ wrote:Not defending anyone here, but in the Prost-Senna / Senna-Prost cases there is not an act of agression (as in "Yea, I'll crash this guy") from either of the two.
The difference is the cynical driver puts his car in a place that can't be avoided,the clumsy driver proactively changes line to hit the other car. Same motive, same end result, the only difference is the subtlety.Senna wrote:I said to myself 'OK, you try to work cleanly and do the job properly and then you get f**ked by stupid people. All right, if tomorrow Prost beats me off the line, at the first corner I will go for it, and he better not turn in because he is not going to make it'. And it just happened.
Senna did not intentionally hit Prost, please stop making this false claim. Senna was on the extreme far right of the circuit and had no space to go to the right further.richard_leeds wrote:The Maldonado incident is rather underwhelming compared to Prost in 89, Senna in 90 and Schumacher in 94 & 97. That doesn't excuse Maldonardo, just gives it some context.
The OP seems more dramatic, the offending car went off track to get to the victim. That make it appears much more deliberate and outrageous but in terms of danger it's of a lower order compared to the Schumacher, Prost and Senna collisions at racing speed. The irony of the racing speed bit is that it also provides the driver with the excuse of being a racing incident.
So yes we have all seen examples that were much more dangerous, only one of them penalised (Schumacher 97).
richard_leeds wrote:Except the Senna was explicit that he'd take Prost out of the race if Senna wasn't in font.stefan_ wrote:Not defending anyone here, but in the Prost-Senna / Senna-Prost cases there is not an act of agression (as in "Yea, I'll crash this guy") from either of the two.
The difference is the cynical driver puts his car in a place that can't be avoided,the clumsy driver proactively changes line to hit the other car. Same motive, same end result, the only difference is the subtlety.Senna wrote:I said to myself 'OK, you try to work cleanly and do the job properly and then you get f**ked by stupid people. All right, if tomorrow Prost beats me off the line, at the first corner I will go for it, and he better not turn in because he is not going to make it'. And it just happened.
By the way I don't mean this to be a fanboy post for or against Senna, Prost or Schumacher. I'm trying to highlight how high speed collisions with subtlety compare to clumsy low speed collisions with equal intent.
Does he say "I will take him out"?, What do you gain by putting words in the man's mouth? He said "I will go for it", not " I will take him out" Senna had every right to race into turn one, it was Prost in 1990 that turned into Senna, had Prost gave proper racing room they would not have collided, we have seen many drivers enter turn 1 Suzuka side by side without contact.Senna wrote:I said to myself 'OK, you try to work cleanly and do the job properly and then you get f**ked by stupid people. All right, if tomorrow Prost beats me off the line, at the first corner I will go for it, and he better not turn in because he is not going to make it'. And it just happened.