The F1 Nostalgia Topic

Post here all non technical related topics about Formula One. This includes race results, discussions, testing analysis etc. TV coverage and other personal questions should be in Off topic chat.
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GitanesBlondes
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The F1 Nostalgia Topic

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Many of us obviously do have an interest in current F1 or we would not be here. However I am almost pretty certain that there are those of us who love the bygone years just as much, if not more in some regards.

With that being said, I think having just a topic dedicated to all things F1 historical would be a lot of fun. Whether it be technical or other, everything is fair game. Ask questions, share pictures, videos, stories, articles, and whatever else one can think of!

I will get things started with this old article I read, that appeared in Sports Illustrated 20 years ago, in the midst of Michael Andretti's infamous F1 campaign.
August 02, 1993
Going Nowhere: Michael Andretti, the dominant Indy Car driver of the 1990s, has been a spectacular failure in his first season in Formula One racing
Bruce Newman

The car's engine was revving near its limit when Michael Andretti began pouring on more power. "Let's see what this thing will do," he muttered. As the small car wound out to nearly 100 miles per hour, a stream of tiny Renaults and Peugeots and corpulent lorries from Germany danced before Andretti's eyes as if on the screen of an arcade game. He was trying to make up for another bad start, a wrong turn that took him back through Vichy—the resort that is synonymous with France's wartime collaboration with the Nazis—instead of out of the town Andretti now breezily referred to as Traitorville.

Most people go to Vichy for the waters, but as far as Andretti could tell that morning, they had been misinformed. During the night, a pipe had burst in his hotel and he had been unable to coax even a trickle from his shower. This had left him discernibly unbathed for the three-hour drive to Paris, a drive that would confirm, at least aromatically, what the European motoring press has been saying about Andretti's driving for months.

With a sixth-place finish in the French Grand Prix at Magny-Cours the day before, Andretti had just passed the midpoint of his first season as a Formula One driver, and he felt he had turned an important corner, even if a voice from the backseat kept telling him it was the wrong one. "Yesterday I started passing like I would in an Indy car," Andretti said. "There isn't a single car in that field that will give you a position—ever—and I was running into some heavy blocking. But I stood my ground when they tried to put me in the grass. I kept my foot in it."

Until the race in France, every time Andretti had put his foot in it this season, he seemed to step into something unpleasant. No American driver had been more successful in the '90s than Michael Andretti, and certainly none had seemed better prepared to represent the U.S. on the F/1 circuit since Mario Andretti, Michael's father, won the world championship in 1978. Back then, Michael, now 30, had traveled with his father from the family's home in Nazareth, Pa., to half a dozen races while Mario was winning the driving championship, and he had never stopped dreaming of going back, even as he was dominating Indy Car racing by leading more laps (2,613), sitting on more poles (19) and winning more races (18) than any other driver in the '90s.

At Sunday's German Grand Prix at Hockenheim, Andretti got away from the start cleanly, but four laps later he tangled with the Ferrari of Gerhard Berger and was out of the race. That brought the average number of laps he has completed in five of the 10 races this season to just under two. After leading nearly 54% of all Indy Car laps last year, Andretti had not even competed in half of the laps run in F/1 this year.

In Andretti's first three Formula One races, he failed to navigate the first lap with the rest of the field even once, and talking about him was practically all anyone in F/1 could do. He was granted a small indulgence for his March 14 debut at Kyalami, South Africa, after his McLaren-Ford stalled due to a faulty clutch and he was left sitting on the starting grid as everyone else roared away. But there was much grumbling about the fact that when he did finally get moving in that race, he completed only four laps before colliding with Great Britain's Derek Warwick. Then came first-lap crashes in successive races: in Brazil on March 28—where Andretti's car pinwheeled into a barrier, nearly decapitating Berger—and two weeks later at the Grand Prix of Europe in Donington, England. By then the press was in full-throated howl.

After the San Marino Grand Prix on April 25, where Andretti spun off after he couldn't reach a cockpit knob that balances the car's brakes, the howlers knew no bounds. "They crucified me," Andretti says. Michael's wife, Sandy, amplifies this point later at a sidewalk café in Paris. Fingering one of her giant gold Chanel earrings, Sandy says, "They've crucified my husband like Jesus Christ on the cross."

Michael and Sandy Andretti had never been to Paris—or "gay Paree" as he kept calling it, insinuatingly—until they rendezvoused there after the French Grand Prix. The French was only the second F/1 race that Sandy had missed, and as the pit-lane gossips pointed out, they were the same two races in which Michael scored his only championship points of the year. The couple's visit to Paris had been arranged by Michael's friend Jean-François Thormann, an American who once lived in Paris and was now trying fiercely to show off the City of Light to two people who made it clear that they care nothing about good restaurants, don't like museums and hate to walk.

"I admit it," Michael says, attempting to order a cheeseburger and fries at an outdoor café near the Eiffel Tower, "I'm a totally spoiled American." The waiter, summoning up that grand Gallic hauteur that the French seem to reserve for the un-French, says it is impossible to have ze chizbirgair, only ze hombirgair, despite a menu from which you can practically scrape the fromage. "You have to be a little more arrogant the way you do things here," Andretti says. "If you're a nice guy, they eat you alive. They lose respect for you. You can't wait for things to come to you, because they don't."

At Magny-Cours, after starting from the 16th spot, Andretti steadily improved his position throughout the race, frequently with bold overtaking maneuvers. At the end he held back the charging Ligier-Renault of Martin Brundle, helping to preserve teammate Ayrton Senna's fourth-place finish. And yet several times after the race Andretti remarked, "I just didn't want to do anything stupid" and "I didn't want to screw up"—not exactly the lyrics to the Andretti family fight song.

The remainder of the article can be found here...

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/ ... /index.htm
"I don't want to make friends with anybody. I don't give a sh*t for fame. I just want to win." -Nelson Piquet

xpensive
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Re: The F1 Nostalgia Topic

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I guess that was back in the days when Formula 1 drivers ordered cheeseburgers, even if I doubt if his teammate ever did?


This is a race that always stuck in my mind was Nurburgring in 1972, when Ronnie qualified MrM's hybrid in 3rd position.

This race sadly also proved to be Jacky's final GP win, but just look at the man, leaving Stewart as an also-ran!

And behold the track.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XOvgXAUVLoA
"I spent most of my money on wine and women...I wasted the rest"

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GitanesBlondes
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Re: The F1 Nostalgia Topic

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xpensive wrote:I guess that was back in the days when Formula 1 drivers ordered cheeseburgers?


This is a race that always stuck in my mind was Nurburgring in 1972, when Ronnie qualified MrM's hybrid in 3rd position.

This race sadly also proved to be Jacky's final GP win, but just look at the man, leaving Stewart as an also-ran!

And behold the track.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XOvgXAUVLoA
Michael Andretti never looked like the paragon of fitness even during his successful years in CART. I still think the only American over the last 30 or so years that might have been able to to have success in F1 was Rick Mears. I always wonder if he would have amounted to anything had he signed with Brabham in the early 80s.

Great video. Jacky Ickx was the true master of the Nurburgring at least till Stefan Bellof had that little run in '83 with the 956. He bettered Cevert's 1971 lap record by 7 seconds in 1972! I still can't believe that was his final GP win. Stewart was no slouch around that circuit, but he was never in the top class of drivers around there in my opinion anyway.
"I don't want to make friends with anybody. I don't give a sh*t for fame. I just want to win." -Nelson Piquet

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Re: The F1 Nostalgia Topic

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I just don't think Michael's mind was set right and I very much doubt if Ron the con payed for this charade himself.

He wan't living even close to Woking, or Europe for that matter, how could he possibly know how to get off the line?

Ordering cheesebugres in paree?

Trash-marketing at its very worst.
"I spent most of my money on wine and women...I wasted the rest"

munudeges
munudeges
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Re: The F1 Nostalgia Topic

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It puts Jacques Villeneuve's achievement into perspective. Small wonder he utterly dominated Indycar and drivers like Zanardi, a decent but average Formula 1 driver (when he came back at Williams I believe he asked for steel brakes!), Montoya and Bourdais have been over there and looked like Sebastian Vettels or Michael Schumachers.

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GitanesBlondes
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Re: The F1 Nostalgia Topic

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munudeges wrote:It puts Jacques Villeneuve's achievement into perspective. Small wonder he utterly dominated Indycar and drivers like Zanardi, a decent but average Formula 1 driver (when he came back at Williams I believe he asked for steel brakes!), Montoya and Bourdais have been over there and looked like Sebastian Vettels or Michael Schumachers.
Jacques is in my opinion criminally underrated as a F1 driver (or even as a driver in general) more the victim of bad career decisions than anything. He wasn't at Michael's level consistently, but he was far better than anyone chooses to remember him as. He never had the car to challenge after 1997, although the 2000 BAR wasn't as poor as the 1999 effort.
"I don't want to make friends with anybody. I don't give a sh*t for fame. I just want to win." -Nelson Piquet

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GitanesBlondes
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Re: The F1 Nostalgia Topic

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xpensive wrote:I just don't think Michael's mind was set right and I very much doubt if Ron the con payed for this charade himself.

He wan't living even close to Woking, or Europe for that matter, how could he possibly know how to get off the line?

Ordering cheesebugres in paree?

Trash-marketing at its very worst.
His mindset definitely was elsewhere. I think he was too busy thinking F1 was still the same place it was in the late 1970s when Mario was winning. Rewatching that 1993 season and focusing on Michael is eye-opening. When he had the brake balance issue at Imola and ran off at the Variante Alta, I'd point to that as the moment when it was obvious he was never going to amount to a damn thing in F1. Though I suppose with that Monza podium, it could be said he still fared far better than Al Unser Jr. ever would have. But that's not saying a whole lot.
"I don't want to make friends with anybody. I don't give a sh*t for fame. I just want to win." -Nelson Piquet

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Re: The F1 Nostalgia Topic

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And here it is, same season, Chris Amon's race of his life, only to fall apart as usual, but see the track and the views!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XOvgXAUVLoA
"I spent most of my money on wine and women...I wasted the rest"

munudeges
munudeges
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Re: The F1 Nostalgia Topic

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Just read the rest of the article. The part where McLaren are trying to keep his God-awful wife out of sight is pretty hilarious, especially with all the Ron-speak.

marcush.
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Re: The F1 Nostalgia Topic

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ah that season ...with Senna not reaching an agreement with Ron due to the loss of competitive powertrain supply and only customer spec Ford power...
How could Michael ever think he could take on Senna with his approach is beyond me.

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GitanesBlondes
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marcush. wrote:ah that season ...with Senna not reaching an agreement with Ron due to the loss of competitive powertrain supply and only customer spec Ford power...
How could Michael ever think he could take on Senna with his approach is beyond me.
Image

I still believe had they had the Lamborghini V12 for the 1994 season, Senna would have stayed there, and that would have been an ungodly fast car in my opinion.

Andretti had no clue about what it took to properly prepare for a F1 season, or even an individual F1 race. Flying from Nazareth, PA for every race was about as ignorant as it gets. The funny thing is Senna actually had nothing bad to say about Michael Andretti...he thought he got a raw deal in the media. Although a bit of it was well deserved due to his amateur approach.
"I don't want to make friends with anybody. I don't give a sh*t for fame. I just want to win." -Nelson Piquet

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GitanesBlondes
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xpensive wrote:And here it is, same season, Chris Amon's race of his life, only to fall apart as usual, but see the track and the views!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XOvgXAUVLoA
Chris Amon was the unluckiest man to ever sit in a F1 car. Mark Webber's 2013 season has been pretty unlucky, but it doesn't even come close to Amon who experienced misfortune for his whole career.

His 1967 season will still remain his finest when he took multiple podiums, and finished 4th in the championship with the 312/67. But you know what is amazing, Chris won two non-championship races! Only time he could ever win a race against F1 cars was when it didn't count. Go figure.
"I don't want to make friends with anybody. I don't give a sh*t for fame. I just want to win." -Nelson Piquet

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GitanesBlondes
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Re: Ross Brawn leaves Mercedes

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FoxHound wrote:What did Patrick head or Williams achieve once Newey upped sticks to McLaren?
From title winners in 1997 to also rans in 1998 to midfield fillers in 1999. Which incidentally McLaren won in 1998 to 1999.
You also are forgetting that the FW-20 and FW-21 were running the godawful Mechachrome engines. In the case of the FW-20, kind of hard to be competitive when you're using last season's engines that haven't been developed no?
Last edited by Richard on 31 Oct 2013, 16:54, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Moved from "Ross Brawn leaves Mercedes" thread....
"I don't want to make friends with anybody. I don't give a sh*t for fame. I just want to win." -Nelson Piquet

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mikeerfol
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Re: Ross Brawn leaves Mercedes

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I think this photo goes here. United States GP, 1978, Williams

Image

munudeges
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Re: Ross Brawn leaves Mercedes

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GitanesBlondes wrote:You also are forgetting that the FW-20 and FW-21 were running the godawful Mechachrome engines. In the case of the FW-20, kind of hard to be competitive when you're using last season's engines that haven't been developed no?
The rot had set in in 1997 to be honest.