Embarrassment for Raikkonen? The Reborn Grosjean...

[PlatinumZealot]

And... the prophecies are fulfilled. Grosjean has been pushing Kimi very hard in these last few races they have as teammates. Could it be fair to say that Grosjean has overshadowed him?

[Holm86]

And... the prophecies are fulfilled. Grosjean has been pushing Kimi very hard in these last few races they have as teammates. Could it be fair to say that Grosjean has overshadowed him?

Or could you say that Raikkonen isn't that committed to Lotus anymore?? Who would be if they werent paid for their job and knew they were out of their job at the end of the season?

And is Lotus committed to Raikkonen? Surely didnt sound like it with that radiocall last race.

And facts is that Raikkonen has 183 points and Grosjean 102. This is what tells us the performance over the season. And thats a point deficit that Grosjean wouldnt be able to catch up even if he won the last 3 races and Raikkonen didnt race another race.

So i fail to see your prophecy being fulfilled.

[Jonnycraig]

And facts is that Raikkonen has 183 points and Grosjean 102. This is what tells us the performance over the season. And thats a point deficit that Grosjean wouldnt be able to catch up even if he won the last 3 races and Raikkonen didnt race another race.

So i fail to see your prophecy being fulfilled.

Without getting into the argument over the two drivers, 50 of Raikonnens points were scored in the first 3 races, after which Lotus built Grosjean a new chassis searching for an inherent car issue.

[Manoah2u]

mind you, grosjean has had more DNF then raikkonen.........

let's check out this one, which gives some more stats

http://grandprixrankings.com/compare/20 ... -grosjean/

and indeed.....raikkonen had the best car from the start, grosjean didn't. surely lotus will regret that, now.
so is it a total fair image? i don't think so.

Is vettel an embarrassment for webber? neither.

[anzx]

at first I'm nobody's fan, I do not prefer neither kimi neither romain, but as I rembmer, it was on skysportsf1 in spa 2012, where they said: "According to telemetry Grosjean is the faster driver", but he never had luck with the car, so I'm wondering what this guy can achive, he has confidence and maybe hes the only one who can stop vettel atm.

[oT v1]

Big fan of Grosjean but i think over the two seasons Kimi has definitely held the upper hand with temperament and consistency, Romain is very very quick on his day but the points dont lie.

Its to Grosjean's credit we are even making such comparisons and hopefully he'll have another good benchmark team mate, in Hulk, next year to push him.

[PlatinumZealot]

I rate Hulk, but he's not really a benchmark driver yet.

[JimClarkFan]

at first I'm nobody's fan, I do not prefer neither kimi neither romain, but as I rembmer, it was on skysportsf1 in spa 2012, where they said: "According to telemetry Grosjean is the faster driver", but he never had luck with the car, so I'm wondering what this guy can achive, he has confidence and maybe hes the only one who can stop vettel atm.

I also believe he is the faster driver, but for all the incidents I think he has struggled with confidence which has affected him.

Lets not forget, he won the race of the champions and history tells us that the cream usually rises to the top in that event more often than not.

He is coming good now, though I still hold a measure of anger that he cost Alonso the title in Spa last year.

[Mika1]

Unbelievable how quick people can change their mind. Last year Kimi couldn't do something wrong and now they think he isn't good enough for Ferrari.

[ringo]

I think we have enough data now.
Kimi is no longer seen as the ICE god.
But as for this season, it's very interesting as to who got the updates earlier in the season, who had the team orders go their way and who simply made too many mistakes.

I've always believed Grosjean to be the faster driver, but Kimi the better racer and pacer.
Romain is now getting the pacer part correct. He's running better in clean air and holding on to the leaders than Kimi is.
He doesn't need kimi's luck to run at the front. For some reason kimi only runs up front with lucky events.
Saying all that Kimi is safer pair of hands in a race. He will make his way through a chaotic race. Romain hasn't mastered this as yet.

As for the current points score, could we look at points scored after the long wheel base car, or the big update?
Also included where both ended when they had a mechainical failure.

[SectorOne]

I think Kimi is the faster driver but like Button, his window is extremely tight.
Things have to be perfectly aligned for the speed to come out over a lap.

I´m very interested in next year against Alonso who seem to be able to wring the neck out of certified dogs.

[FoxHound]

Kimi is a tad higher than Button in my estimation.
No foul to Button, but Kimi has a certain xfactor within the car that makes him appear
the faster more deserving driver than Button.
Button does have some areas he destroys Kimi in... notably press conferences and intermediate weather conditions.

[Rikhart]

I think we have enough data now.
Kimi is no longer seen as the ICE god.
But as for this season, it's very interesting as to who got the updates earlier in the season, who had the team orders go their way and who simply made too many mistakes.

I've always believed Grosjean to be the faster driver, but Kimi the better racer and pacer.
Romain is now getting the pacer part correct. He's running better in clean air and holding on to the leaders than Kimi is.
He doesn't need kimi's luck to run at the front. For some reason kimi only runs up front with lucky events.
Saying all that Kimi is safer pair of hands in a race. He will make his way through a chaotic race. Romain hasn't mastered this as yet.

As for the current points score, could we look at points scored after the long wheel base car, or the big update?
Also included where both ended when they had a mechainical failure.

Unbelievable post.
So you put down the ENORMOUS difference in any conceivable statistic between them (Raikkonen has twice the amount of anything good, in some cases more than that), in the favour of Raikkonen, by luck? Over two seasons?
=D>

[munudeges]

Raikkonen has twice the number of points than Grosjean over two seasons despite assurances from many intelligent members of this forum (this thread being a classic example) consistently over those two years that Grosjean was some world beater in waiting. We waited, and we waited, and we wait.

He's a good example of a driver who looks fast (if Formula 1 was a time trial, no problem) and people look at him and say "Oh, if only he can stop doing this and do this and that" without realising the fundamental problems underneath, one of them being a complete lack of spatial awareness. Both Maldonado and Perez have exactly the same problems and Grosjean and Maldonado are highly likely to be team mates next year with the much vaunted Quantum funding looking like a Qadbak scam.

To be brutally honest though, a lot of esteemed forum members have been bigging up Grosjean not as a discussion point but as a means to have a go at Raikkonen personally, which is downright bizarre.

[ringo]

Raikonen is more experienced. So it goes without say that he'll collect more points over a season.
He also will take advantage of not so clear situations, as we've seen many times over the two years.
However this does not support the idea Gorsejean only "looks fast". 2 years is not a long time to come on equal footing with raikonen, and make him look ordinary.
i'll even go as far as to say Ferrari may be regretting teaming Grojean with his old teammate Alonso.

The abudhabi race this weekend doesn't helps raikonens case either. I'm expecting grosjean to put in a strong race like he has managed in the last 3 races.