Embarrassment for Raikkonen? The Reborn Grosjean...

[xDama]

Unbelievable how quick people can change their mind. Last year Kimi couldn't do something wrong and now they think he isn't good enough for Ferrari.

+100

Grosjean drives a handful of decent races, while Raikkonen finally hits some bad luck in combination with Lotus' idiotic management and you get stuff like this:

at first I'm nobody's fan, I do not prefer neither kimi neither romain, but as I rembmer, it was on skysportsf1 in spa 2012, where they said: "According to telemetry Grosjean is the faster driver", but he never had luck with the car, so I'm wondering what this guy can achive, he has confidence and maybe hes the only one who can stop vettel atm.

[Stradivarius]

Raikonen is more experienced. So it goes without say that he'll collect more points over a season.
He also will take advantage of not so clear situations, as we've seen many times over the two years.
However this does not support the idea Gorsejean only "looks fast". 2 years is not a long time to come on equal footing with raikonen, and make him look ordinary.
i'll even go as far as to say Ferrari may be regretting teaming Grojean with his old teammate Alonso.

The abudhabi race this weekend doesn't helps raikonens case either. I'm expecting grosjean to put in a strong race like he has managed in the last 3 races.

It's not really true that the more experienced driver always will collect more points over a season. If I remember correctly, Vettel has collected more points than Webber every season they have driven together since 2009, which was Vettel's 2nd full season. Webber was the more experienced and I guess the difference in experience between the two drivers was more or less the same as the difference in experience between Raikkonen and Grosjean.

By the way, I find it a bit strange that you first say that you think we have enough data, and then you claim that only lucky events have caused Kimi to run up front. In my opinion, that is a contradiction, as "enough data" should imply that luck is no longer a significant part of the picture. After 37 races as team mates, the data is definitely in Kimi's favour. Of course, it would be natural to expect more progress from an unexperienced driver, but if your point is that Grosjean has improved lately, I don't agree that we have enough data.

[akiro]

embarassment for what I read here...seems like a bunch of scholars are writing about things they don't know at all.
you'd better realise raikkonen is one of the fastest and more gifted drivers of the decade(2003-2013) and of all time.

I've read things like "not able to overtake " "weak in qualify" as if he was a sort of chilton.

go and have a look at 2 overtakes of the best:
on maldonado in singapore(grosjean at his place would have probably finished on the wall) and on button same race.

go and have a look at stats:
qualifies:
grosjean was only 6 time better than raikkonen, while raikkonen was 11 times better than the french.
grosjean is very fast indeed, but raikkonen's talent in going fast, same as grosjean in many races and faster than grosjean in many others, without failing in handling the car is something which puts him on another level.

I'd like to remember that your prophecy hasn't come true so your thread looks ridiculous and that if you go deep inside other stats you'll realise that alonso was beaten several time by massa who is considered right now as a third level driver and hamilton was beaten 8 times by rosberg on the single lap.

seems like it's high time to create a post named " embarassment for hamilton? the newborn rosberg(as if rosberg hadn't shown his potential before)"

or maybe some drivers are just untouchable.

ps: I've also read grosjean is the fastest mate raikkonen had...this shows how much people know about this sport...probably they think raikkonen's mate were mazzacane and gene...
montoya was one of the 3 best drivers since 2005, coulthard was a good driver(solid number 2), heidfeld very underrated but very quick, massa til 2009 was very very fast and almost perfect if given a right car which suited his style.
if you compare massa pre-2009 with massa today, sorry but you haven't been watching f1.

[oT v1]

you could have just posted on your original account instead of making a new one today....

[Pierce89]

It's pathetic how upset people get over a person they'll never know or even meet. I'm a huge Alonso fan but I see no need to attack his multitude of haters.

[PlatinumZealot]

embarassment for what I read here...seems like a bunch of scholars are writing about things they don't know at all.
you'd better realise raikkonen is one of the fastest and more gifted drivers of the decade(2003-2013) and of all time.

I've read things like "not able to overtake " "weak in qualify" as if he was a sort of chilton.

go and have a look at 2 overtakes of the best:
on maldonado in singapore(grosjean at his place would have probably finished on the wall) and on button same race.

go and have a look at stats:
qualifies:
grosjean was only 6 time better than raikkonen, while raikkonen was 11 times better than the french.
grosjean is very fast indeed, but raikkonen's talent in going fast, same as grosjean in many races and faster than grosjean in many others, without failing in handling the car is something which puts him on another level.

I'd like to remember that your prophecy hasn't come true so your thread looks ridiculous and that if you go deep inside other stats you'll realise that alonso was beaten several time by massa who is considered right now as a third level driver and hamilton was beaten 8 times by rosberg on the single lap.

seems like it's high time to create a post named " embarassment for hamilton? the newborn rosberg(as if rosberg hadn't shown his potential before)"

or maybe some drivers are just untouchable.

ps: I've also read grosjean is the fastest mate raikkonen had...this shows how much people know about this sport...probably they think raikkonen's mate were mazzacane and gene...
montoya was one of the 3 best drivers since 2005, coulthard was a good driver(solid number 2), heidfeld very underrated but very quick, massa til 2009 was very very fast and almost perfect if given a right car which suited his style.
if you compare massa pre-2009 with massa today, sorry but you haven't been watching f1.

Grosjean was not upto his real potential yet. remember he was barely rehabilitated from being a crash-kid. If Kimi had Grosjean for 2014 he would be push hard if not beaten over the season. In fact Kimi's bad back would make it easier for Grosjean to beat him.

[Kansas]

oh please.

Groesjean barely ahead of Kimi when he struggle with the tire.

Where was Romain when he struggle??? Crush to the core by Kimi.

Abu Dhabi gave me the answer when kimi got back the short wheel base car, he genuinely trounce Romain by half a seconds. Gary Anderson stated that the damaged floor also cost him a few tenths.

People tend to underestimate Kimi Raikkonen who's the only guy that came closest to Seb in 2013 in term of WDC standing and finished most gp in front of Seb, more than anyone else on the grid.

Lotus threw away that easy 2nd in WCC when they choose to bring in the LWB car in favor of Romain.

Like i said, Abu Dhabi is the answer. And im terrified how high the quality of WDCs we have.

[ringo]

I think next year Alonso will reveal if Kimi really stands up to these accolades that are being gifted to him.
Because to be unbiased, as i'm not fan of Kimi or Romaine, Romaine has been performing much better than Kimi in the last half, short wheelbase or not. The point is he is driving an improved car, the long wheelbase, much faster than Kimi could.
This reminds me of the 2008 season, when Massa was doing a better job with the car that had the sharkfin which was the better configuration and Kimi just couldnt keep up.
So as said earlier, Massa was a match for Kimi, but didn't look so hot against Alonso. So now we will have Alonso against Kimi, who Massa manhandled, to give us a good benchmark of Kimi and also of Romaine, who also came up against Alonso in his debut year in F1.

[Kansas]

I think next year Alonso will reveal if Kimi really stands up to these accolades that are being gifted to him.
Because to be unbiased, as i'm not fan of Kimi or Romaine, Romaine has been performing much better than Kimi in the last half, short wheelbase or not. The point is he is driving an improved car, the long wheelbase, much faster than Kimi could.
This reminds me of the 2008 season, when Massa was doing a better job with the car that had the sharkfin which was the better configuration and Kimi just couldnt keep up.
So as said earlier, Massa was a match for Kimi, but didn't look so hot against Alonso. So now we will have Alonso against Kimi, who Massa manhandled, to give us a good benchmark of Kimi and also of Romaine, who also came up against Alonso in his debut year in F1.

How do you know long wheel base is an improved car?? Lotus claim LWB only improve stability under braking and some balance issues. And the fact that Kimi trounce Romain by 5tenth in abu dhabi driving the older version of SWB proved that in term of performance gain, LWB doesnt bring any.

I have no idea what Kimi has to prove really. All he needs was communicate more with his technical team as in not jeopardizing his car with some update that makes his car worse in term of handling preference.

Easy 2nd place finish in Silverstone was ruined by team 's genius strategy. Good chances in 2nd place finish was jeopardize by rear brake failure in indian gp. Podium was guaranteed in Abu Dhabi but the team screw him up with grid penalties. His spine injuries was invoked by team not blotting his seat properly in Singapore. Its easy to say romain performed better than kimi in 2nd half of the season while fact suggest otherwise.

Alonso was outqualified 6 times in 2nd half of the season, a few times massa was on 2nd row. Hey...no people doubt him really.Ferrari has the best all rounder car in 1st half but the one came closest to vettel in WDC point differences is Kimi.

So if Kimi prove to be more than a match for fernando, do we rank Massa in the Top 3 status?? Given your logic pattern works that way.

[Stradivarius]

It seems to me that all drivers depend on having a car that suits them and it is not as easy as saying that one car fits a certain style and that's it. This may vary from one track to another and that is one of the reasons why we see performance variations between team mates. Vettel is generally a better driver than Webber, but still Webber was better on several occasions, although this didn't happen very often the last year. Same thing with Alonso and Massa, while Rosberg and Hamilton really proved that you can never take the performance at one track as proof of the general performance. At some races Hamilton was clearly faster than Rosberg, but at some other races it was the other way around.

Maybe one of the factors that separate the great drivers from the good drivers is their ability to adapt to whatever car or track they get. Given a car that suits them, they can all win, even Maldonado. But what they do when the car isn't that great could mean a lot. So in my opinion, it doesn't make sense to look at one single race and say that it proves anything. It makes more sense to look at all the races and see the general patterns. Some times you see a clear trend and some times things are pretty equal. In the case of Raikkonen, he has clearly been better than Grosjean, but I am not sure if he will be as consistent as Alonso at Ferrari. That remains to be seen.

[Steven]

I think we can all agree there was no embarrassment for Raikkonen, and now the season is over, there won't be any new comparable parameters to add.