Post here all non technical related topics about Formula One. This includes race results, discussions, testing analysis etc. TV coverage and other personal questions should be in Off topic chat.
Bernie is what would call a wide boy, wheeler dealer, ducking and diving. I think all cultures have them. Briatore and Balestre are other examples.
That's so. But WHY does the world of Formula One seem to have more than it's share of them?
I suspect it has to do with the PTB of the sport always engaging in a global form of what a friend of mine often calls "a dick measuring contest."
I don't think it's having more than their share of them, but rather they tend to be so audacious in thinking they are untouchable. They do a lot of things that are extremely underhanded, but when they get caught for it all, there is little punishment to be had.
"I don't want to make friends with anybody. I don't give a sh*t for fame. I just want to win." -Nelson Piquet
strad wrote:every time I see this thread my instintual mental response is...When didn't/hasn't Bernie lied.
Precisely the same thoughts myself.
If someone said to me that you can have three wishes, my first would have been to get into racing, my second to be in Formula 1, my third to drive for Ferrari.
strad wrote:every time I see this thread my instintual mental response is...When didn't/hasn't Bernie lied.
I think this case is different. Bernie is economical with the truth where it serves his business purpose. He also changes his mind frequently. This case here is a bit different. He will be fighting for his job which is something he loves more than his life. It made him do the wrong things in the first place if the indictment is indeed true. Bernie has every reason to have lied about the Gribkowsky case as a witness. And I think the court will show this to the world and punish him for doing it. That will be the end for his existence as the supremo as he loves to be styled. It will make a difference for F1 at least I hope.
Formula One's fundamental ethos is about success coming to those with the most ingenious engineering and best ..............................organization, not to those with the biggest budget. (Dave Richards)
Formula One's fundamental ethos is about success coming to those with the most ingenious engineering and best ..............................organization, not to those with the biggest budget. (Dave Richards)
“There have been minuses and pluses, the cattivo and the buono, as we say in Italian,” [Montezemolo] said, speaking of Ecclestone’s reign. “The minus is that he made too much money, he sold out our business three or four times in the past 40 years, making all the time a lot of money for himself. Second, being all the time a one-man show. I think his job was sometimes very good. But having said that, sooner or later, he has to leave and do something else.”
“Well, what lies would you like?” [Ecclestone] asked with an insouciance that has become his trademark in fending off impenitent journalists.
“A super guy,” Ecclestone said of [Vladimir] Putin, inside the comfort of his own Kremlin. “Could do with him in every country.”
Mr Justice Newey was told Mr Ecclestone deliberately undervalued the Formula 1 Group during its sale in 2006. German media company Constantin Medien claims it lost out over the deal and is seeking about £90m in damages. The F1 chief executive, denies any wrongdoing and his lawyers say the claim lacks "merit".
Mr Ecclestone was not in court, but is scheduled to appear as a witness next week
The court heard on Thursday that Eddie Jordan, now a BBC pundit, quadruple world champion Alain Prost, and the late Arrows boss Tom Walkinshaw - all former Formula One team owners - were each paid $10 million to sign the 1998 Concorde Agreement.
The money was reportedly paid straight from Ecclestone's Bambino family trust into the bosses' personal bank accounts, not to their respective F1 teams.
"They were paid to ensure that their teams did sign. Isn't that right?" the lawyer for German media company Constantin asked the F1 chief executive in court.
"Yes," Ecclestone agreed.
Now in a court of law that sounds like he paid monies to individuals in order to exert influence or to lobby to the team that signing the concorde is in the best interest of the team, so technically if thats the case its a bribe as well as being unethical.
Last edited by Hail22 on 09 Nov 2013, 03:29, edited 3 times in total.
If someone said to me that you can have three wishes, my first would have been to get into racing, my second to be in Formula 1, my third to drive for Ferrari.
Bernie Ecclestone asked on Friday to “go back on” some of the evidence he had given to the High Court on Thursday in his $140 million damages lawsuit as he was accused of “lying repeatedly”.
On another tense day of cross-examination, which produced some heated exchanges between Formula One’s 83-year-old chief executive, who is a co-defendant in the suit, and Philip Marshall QC, representing Constantin Medien, Ecclestone said that he had not had sufficient time to prepare himself and had been “in a hurry” when giving evidence on Thursday.
It is unclear to which evidence Ecclestone was referring but on Thursday the court heard that former team owners Eddie Jordan, Alain Prost and Tom Walkinshaw had all personally been paid $10 million, or £7 million, to ensure that they signed the 1998 Concorde Agreement, the sport’s key commercial deal.
Marshall had repeatedly asked Ecclestone whether he regarded “the payment of bribes to people who are not public officials as acceptable”. “I will have to think about that,” Ecclestone had said. “I wish I would have thought about it before actually.”
Giving evidence for a third straight day on Friday, Ecclestone said that he had not had time to look through all the documents properly. “Yesterday I was in rather a hurry,” he told Marshall. “You’ve had months and months and months to look through all the documents and pick out points. I’ve been in lots of different countries and done lots and lots of miles on aeroplanes and I haven’t had the opportunity to do that. Now I’m going to have. I don’t care if this takes until the end of the year. I will look at everything now.”
Actually, one interesting thought - if Bernie is found guilty, does that put in doubt all of his dealings? Could we see the teams mount a revolution on the back of it? Not sure that would be a good thing to be honest - one thing about Bernie is that he has provided a single focus for the development of F1 in the last 20 years. I think one could be quite confident in saying that without Bernie F1 would have died years ago.
He's still a crook though.
If you are more fortunate than others, build a larger table not a taller fence.
I don't know if you could say F1 had died years ago. Sure, Bernie handled F1 promotion well, the way we look at it now.
BUT - so many teams complain about the costs, and so many teams have gone bankrupt or quit, aswell as many providers.
BMW, Toyota, Honda - and then we have the failed USF1 team [that actually did make a tub], the crumbled Hispania RT,
etc.
One might wonder - if Bernie wasn't there, asking rediculous amounts from entry fees, rediculous $$ from the circuit providers, then we might have seen a totally different F1 today.
Offcourse it's always easy theorizing away, just as it's easy to speak with hindsight.
What I do find repulsive is F1 behind the decoder.
I can't get SkyF1 in the NL's [better said, I'm not willing to pay rediculous amounts to be ABLE to get it],
and Sport1 [the only official provider] is behind a decoder = money money money.
BBC only shows some races.
So the entire F1 experience is wayy different than it was before.
And now, we have a F1 full of bribery, scandals and political affairs. Not a pretty picture.
It's hard to imagine IF and how it could/would/should have been different, but the simple truth is,
Ecclestone is like Blatter. Has all the ropes in hands.
And i'm not afraid F1 will die. The big teams will just run it themselves, like they threatened with the cutaway-series a while ago, F1 will survive.
But what will happen to Bernie now?
"Explain the ending to F1 in football terms"
"Hamilton was beating Verstappen 7-0, then the ref decided F%$& rules, next goal wins
while also sending off 4 Hamilton players to make it more interesting"
When Bernie took over, F1 was a pit of in-fighting between teams. He provided a single point of focus which was needed at the time. He ran the business and the teams dealt with the cars/drivers. He became the showman, the ring leader that we know and love today. Without his focus, it's very possible that F1 would have died.
Let's not forget that F1 wasn't the global brand it is today back when he took over. F1 owes it's position in the pantheon of global sport to one man - Bernie Ecclestone.
He's still a crook though.
If you are more fortunate than others, build a larger table not a taller fence.
Just_a_fan wrote:The guy's a crook. Lock him up and move one...
Actually, one interesting thought - if Bernie is found guilty, does that put in doubt all of his dealings? Could we see the teams mount a revolution on the back of it? Not sure that would be a good thing to be honest - one thing about Bernie is that he has provided a single focus for the development of F1 in the last 20 years. I think one could be quite confident in saying that without Bernie F1 would have died years ago.
He's still a crook though.
Grand prix racing existed long before F1 and Bernie Ecclestone.
Sadly he would have everyone believe grand prix racing never existed till 1950...and never mattered till he had control over the commercial side of it.
"I don't want to make friends with anybody. I don't give a sh*t for fame. I just want to win." -Nelson Piquet
